83 replies to this topic

[shortpainter]

You have to treat Hunchbacks like classic zombies. Keep away from them and you should be okay.

Imagine an Atlas on top of a hill with a Hunchback horde closing in slowly, taking unreasonable amounts of damage before they die, head shots not happening often enough, limbs falling off, they still come closer...mech brains!!!

[Myc]

I guess you already got your answer, but I'll chime in anyway. No, I do not like the Hunchback. Give me a bushy instead.

[Tadakuma]

The Hunchback is an interesting mech, in that it has some obvious strengths and weaknesses and really shines within a team. The combination of excellent armour (for a medium) and massive short range punch in a very cheap mech means that it is a fantastic 3rd or 4th mech in a lance supporting more expensive heavies or assault mechs.

By itself it's short range can be a serious liability, in lance combat that's not an issue. It either attracts a lot of fire (distracting opponents from your more expensive and valuable mechs) or it is left alone allowing you to get to short range were you have the firepower of an Assault mech and will destroy most mechs.

It's shear threat value can force other players to take certain actions or avoid areas. For example in the TT game if you park one in cover you will find that your opponent is reluctant to move with 9-12 hexes of it. You can use this to block off flaks and channel opponents into ambushes and minefields. It's the closest Battltech comes to a classic MMORPG Tank class,

I know some posters have said that there are heavier mechs that can do the same thing but better, the issue is that the Hunchback is a cheap attrition unit.

It has a Battle Value of 1041 and costs around 3.5 Mill C bills depending on variant.

To get something that is as tough and has a similar Short range punch then you're looking at a 70 tonners like a Grasshopper, Cataphract or Guillotine. Those mechs are in the 1300-1400 Battle value range and weigh in at around 6 million C-bills.

So you're paying a 30% Battle Value premium, a 40% tonnage premium and nearly 80% C-bill premium to get that mech. It damn well better win and I will have used those points save in the Hunchback to upgrade one of my other mechs to something more powerful again.

If the Devs ever start using a balancing system for match generation then you're going to find that Hunchback is going to get a lot of use because it is a very efficient mech. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if people start complaining about it being too efficient at some point.

[Justsumnoob]

Don't know anyone that doesn't like hunchbacks. On the TT they can pretty much rip apart anything its same weight class or less in only a couple of shots. A must take in any lance

[FLAKPANZER]

I used to hate the Hunchback because of the way it looked...
Now, I love the Hunchback because of the way it looks.

Funny how tastes change as we get older.

[Vasces Diablo]

Tadakuma, on 21 June 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

It has a Battle Value of 1041 and costs around 3.5 Mill C bills depending on variant.

To get something that is as tough and has a similar Short range punch then you're looking at a 70 tonners like a Grasshopper, Cataphract or Guillotine. Those mechs are in the 1300-1400 Battle value range and weigh in at around 6 million C-bills.

This actually goes back to my original idea that taking out a Hunch is the most efficiant way of taking enemy power off the field. To take out the same Battle Value, I have to go through something with more armor and can prob hit me at range.

[DerMaulwurf]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 June 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

So... what you're saying... is that heavy mechs are bigger than medium mechs. Yeah, we knew that.

The game is incorporating reasons to have something other than heavies and assaults, so I'll stick with the mediums and see what the advantages are. If I don't like it, I can always drop in a larger engine and pretend I'm an Enforcer.

If you know that, why are you trying to use a medium for the role of a heavy?

I'm not going to try scouting in an assault either.

[Skadi]

Imo, its ugly as hell.

[ScrapIron Prime]

DerMaulwurf, on 21 June 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

If you know that, why are you trying to use a medium for the role of a heavy?

I'm not going to try scouting in an assault either.

Okay then, given that many medium mechs do not have a speed advantage over heavy mechs, what do you see as the role of a medium mech?

By canon, you use a 64 kph medium mech for lance fighting and main line duties because heavies are rarer and harder to field, but you otherwise use them for similar roles. (By succession wars canon, 40% of all battlemechs were medium weight class, 30% were light, 20% were heavy, and a mere 10% were assault class.) You used mediums because that's what you HAD.

Clearly that isn't going to be the issue in MWO. But are you advocating some fundamentally different method of fielding them? (Like suggesting all mediums be modded up to 85 kph speeds to function as flanking battle units?)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 21 June 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Project_Mercy]

The stock hunchback is OK. It has a specialized role. If someone wants to exploit that, they'll probably win. More often than not though, there's other mechs around that seem higher priority.. until it's too late.

I won a MW2 tournament at GenCon one year using a HBK IIC. Everyone else was in Timber Wolves and Mad Dogs and figured I wasn't a big deal. I had to go through like 5-6 matches to get to the final. They all pretty well went the same. By the time I got into the fight, half the mechs were dead and the other were beat up. I just ran clean up at that point.

The swayback is deadlier though, as it regularly gets ignored, and it will melt anyone that gets in laser range. I detest boating, but at least the swayback is cannon.

[Jake Simmons]

Back in the olden days I remember piloting a variant called the HBK-4S it had 3 SRM-6s on it. And you wouldn't ever want to get near it. It was crit city. Of course you'd overheat if you went bonkers with the thing, but after 3 SRM-6 blasts, it was curtians.

It's purely an ambush mech, if you're in sight of someone beyond six hexes you're doing something wrong.

Edited by Jake Simmons, 21 June 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[ThunderHart]

If you loose the "HAND" and added another weapon yeah I like it but not as much as I like the uziel but it has it place.

[Thom Frankfurt]

I don't particuarly care for it. But don't get me wrong, I respect it. As well as anything that mounts a monster-cannon.

[PainGod30]

Why no love for Quasi Moto?

[Donovan Jenks]

Vasces Diablo, on 21 June 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

I have never liked this mech. I understand why people do, don't get me wrong, I'm just not one of them.

Canon says it's a city fighter, which makes sense, because it has too many drawbacks (IMO) in any other role.

Here's how I see it: it gives up too much for that AC 20... And everyone knows it has that big gun, which makes it an instant target. Frankly, killing a hunchback is prob the most efficient way of taking enemy offensive power off the battle field. (medium mech, no closing abilty, no long range weapons, its certainly more efficiant than taking on larger mechs with AC 20s) If I'm in a mech with any long range power, hunchies are my first target.

/put on flame resistant suit

Yeah, it has nothing out of short range except the 2 medium lasers. It is popular as a city fighter because the buildings mitigate its medium and long range drawbacks. in an open environment I have used them to success in holding them in reserve until the enemy is engaged and having two hit a flank hard and take a few out before they can get out of range. You are right in the open and visible they are nothing but targets until they can close the range.

[Major Tom]

I suspect that Humpie's will be second class citizens since the heavier Atlas can do everything it can do, only better. However it will only cost half as much to repair an HBK so it will be a solid money maker. Additionally once XL engines hit the field a 50 ton mech has a lot of movement options, while a 100 tonner is still very limited (although an XL my not fit in a torso with an AC/20).

[Alizabeth Aijou]

I'm Kuritan and the HBK is a medium.
Go figure.
I'd much rather drive around in my DRG-5K modded with twin PPCs (provided that's possible).

[ScrapIron Prime]

Major Tom, on 21 June 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

I suspect that Humpie's will be second class citizens since the heavier Atlas can do everything it can do, only better. However it will only cost half as much to repair an HBK so it will be a solid money maker. Additionally once XL engines hit the field a 50 ton mech has a lot of movement options, while a 100 tonner is still very limited (although an XL my not fit in a torso with an AC/20).

They're taking pains to make scout-class mechs quite viable. So I'll trust them and see what they have in store to make medium mechs an attractive alternative to heavies. Upkeep cost and profit margin would make sense.

[DerMaulwurf]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 June 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

You used mediums because that's what you HAD.

Clearly that isn't going to be the issue in MWO. But are you advocating some fundamentally different method of fielding them? (Like suggesting all mediums be modded up to 85 kph speeds to function as flanking battle units?)

I always found other mediums I'd rather use. Mechs that are faster, have range or both.

For short range brawling I use heavies and for being cheap I spam Savannah Masters.

[Feyd Rautha]

Thorn Blackwell, on 21 June 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

I can see the appeal, it's the same appeal that most people had for any mech that had weapons that can do more than 12 points to a single location. I call them head-hunters. They are all about the one shot kill, and it's the luck nature of the game that can destroy a good strategists day. In the computer games it has become the norm that people will aim for that one-shot kill, and it's an aspect that has prevented the use of good solid tactics in most Mechwarrior games to date.

The Hunchy is a limited mech, but 20 points of located damage is a lot to medium and heavy mechs, and it's a totally dead location to many lights. In my experience a good strategy with better mech designs usually wins the TT game. I'll take a Wolverine almost any day over the Hunchy. The thing I've seen in the videos is there is a reload time to the big weaps that may make it very difficult for that clean head shot at close range. It will still hurt if you get hit, but the insta-kill should be easier to avoid.

My bigest issue with the Hunchback is the armor. It doesn't have enough, and it's slow for its weight class. It better get its lucky shot in or it won't survive the battle. I can't wait to fight against it, because the big gun doesn't scare me. I've seen it too many times.

I know why people like clan tech, because they like to snipe, go all lone-wolf, and not really need anyone else. The damage values spike at levels that are high enough to make many weapons sniping weapons. So, despite what all clan lore is in the books they don't really like the stand up fight. They like to run away when the whole galaxy needs them, build their tech to a level that makes it silly to side against them, and then back stab the unexpected with superior weaponry. It's terrorist tactics on a weaker opponent, and as an observer it shows ultimate cowardice and dishonorly conduct not the other way around. The bidding process is all show as it''s really about conserving limited resources.

My greatest hope for this game is that sniping proves to be the most unreliable way to take down an opponent. The most successful games that exist force you to rely on your teammates to work together for real rewards. If this game doesn't live up to that it won't be long before people are off after the next big thing.

I concur with your distaste for the clans. I, too, find their society to be full of cowardice, albeit masked by a false sense of bravado and "honor". I shall endeavor to rout clanners wherever and whenever I encounter them! (Assuming that the clan invasion actually occurs in MWO)