55 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Has anyone tried there Highlanders since the patch? Prior to the patch, 1-2 JJ Highlanders had very weak thrust. 3 was workable but I liked a little more zing so I had 4 (8 tons) in my 733C and 5 (10 tons) in my Heavy Metal.

After the patch today, I feel as if the thrust values have been adjusted too far. The Class I jump jets are twice the tonnage of the Victors, does anyone else feel like they should be a little more effective? Especially when mounting the max number of allowable jump jets?

To me it just feels like a little too much, and they create extra heat too now, actually raising heat level while jumping with max jets. I'm assuming Class I jets create more heat then the lesser jets. Just seems like a pretty hard slam for a Mech that wasn't even the competitors choice for Assaults because of its speed.

[Deathlike]

I can't say that I've used a Highlander for a while. Sold it off since 3 JJs weren't enough for me at the time.

I had argued about fixing some of that (since 3 JJs on a Highlander was "technically" required to make it barely usable), but people said they were fine.

These changes will collectively get worse once the original mechanic goes unfixed/unchanged, for a lack of a better term.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 July 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[MischiefSC]

jj assaults are like trying to fly an Abhrams tank with jets.Its gonna be slow and clumsy.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

jj assaults are like trying to fly an Abhrams tank with jets.Its gonna be slow and clumsy.

Well, Victors don't have a problem though.

[Gas Guzzler]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

jj assaults are like trying to fly an Abhrams tank with jets.Its gonna be slow and clumsy.

Interesting point of view. So which is heavier, an Assault or one of these:




FYI: Delta IIs weigh over 150 tons, I'll just give you the answer.


I know its not a perfect comparison, but just because its bigger doesn't mean slower. It does have more powerful jump jets that weight 2 tons, so I don't see a reason why it should be so much slower then a Victor/TW/CTF...

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 July 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[DONTOR]

Holy crap I just realsed I havent seen highlanders in weeks.

[Noth]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Interesting point of view. So which is heavier, an Assault or one of these:

Well, I can tell you this. Most of that is a rocket. Literally most of that has the soul purpose of providing thrust to launch the object. It does more to show that it takes a lot to get something off the ground. It would take a massive amount of thrust to get a 100, non aerodynamic mech off the ground.

[Gas Guzzler]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Well, I can tell you this. Most of that is a rocket. Literally most of that has the soul purpose of providing thrust to launch the object. It does more to show that it takes a lot to get something off the ground. It would take a massive amount of thrust to get a 100, non aerodynamic mech off the ground.

Actually its more accurate to say most of that rocket is fuel.

And aerodynamics have very little effect on the speeds we are talking about, especially right at liftoff. And its 90 ton mech, with the heaviest jets in the game.

I'm shocked you guys think this is right on... like really. I'm shocked.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 July 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Solahma]

http://youtu.be/OmTlqsjB5Os?t=3m30s

[Kiiyor]

How's the DS?

[MischiefSC]

Strap a Titan, Atlas or other superheavy lifter to a highlander with a hundred plus tons of fuel and engines I agree it should lift easily.

Currently you're lifting with 2-8 tons of vectored lifting engines and endless magic fuel.

Its clumsy.

[Gas Guzzler]

The DS with 4 jets is great. TW is actually pretty good with 3, but you have to make sacrifices to run the meta build.

It was clumsy before frankly, it just made up for the clumsiness in height.

[Noth]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Actually its more accurate to say most of that rocket is fuel.

And aerodynamics have very little effect on the speeds we are talking about, especially right at liftoff. And its 90 ton mech, with the heaviest jets in the game.

I'm shocked you guys think this is right on... like really. I'm shocked.

Yes most of it is fuel, but I can guarantee you that the rocket engine on that is immensely more powerful than what can be mounted on the mechs. You cannot compare a dedicated rocket system meant to launch things into orbit to much smaller jet system simply designed to get a mech off the ground.

[Gas Guzzler]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yes most of it is fuel, but I can guarantee you that the rocket engine on that is immensely more powerful than what can be mounted on the mechs. You cannot compare a dedicated rocket system meant to launch things into orbit to much smaller jet system simply designed to get a mech off the ground.

Well you really can't compare a science fictional jet system designed to get a mech off the ground from several hundred years from now to strapping a jet on an M1 Abrams tank to lift it off the ground, either.

[Felbombling]

Kiiyor, on 15 July 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

How's the DS?

Oddly, you actually have MORE thrust height with the patch. It is calculated at 5.9m per Jump Jet... so two Jump Jets for jump sniping used to provide 11.3m of height... but now provide for 11.9m. The patch actually solidified the two Jump Jet build for the DS.

[Noth]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Well you really can't compare a science fictional jet system designed to get a mech off the ground from several hundred years from now to strapping a jet on an M1 Abrams tank to lift it off the ground, either.

In a way you can, as those launch rockets exist in BT and even a mech sized object being launched, takes a massive amount of thrust with engines that dwarf those of the jump jets on the mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

In a way you can, as those launch rockets exist in BT and even a mech sized object being launched, takes a massive amount of thrust with engines that dwarf those of the jump jets on the mechs.

What does this have to do with the M1 Abrams tank, at all? Lol.

And we aren't trying to put a Mech in orbit either so you don't need all that fuel. We are talking 7 km/s of delta-v to get an object into LEO, vs lifting a Mech off the ground less than the length of a football field.

This is a moot argument though, no point in arguing it. I was just pointing out the flawed logic in an M1 Abrams tank comparison but you missed that for some reason.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 July 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[Noth]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

What does this have to do with the M1 Abrams tank, at all? Lol.

I"m not even bringing in the Abrahms tank here. Simply the rocket launch comparison. Even in BT it takes a huge rocket engine to give a lot of lift to heavy objects.

[Gas Guzzler]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

I"m not even bringing in the Abrahms tank here. Simply the rocket launch comparison. Even in BT it takes a huge rocket engine to give a lot of lift to heavy objects.

Ughhh you are missing my point entirely. I was saying you can't compare HGN jump jets to lifting an M1 abrams tank and using an exaggerated argument like the Delta-II to point out how silly that is. And what rocket engine in BT is needed to propel an HGN less then 100m into the air? Why would they use a large rocket engine to do that when the HGN has jump jets?

Are you talking about dropships that take mechs off the planet? Because I'm not arguing that an HGN should thrust like that...

[pwnface]

StaggerCheck, on 15 July 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Oddly, you actually have MORE thrust height with the patch. It is calculated at 5.9m per Jump Jet... so two Jump Jets for jump sniping used to provide 11.3m of height... but now provide for 11.9m. The patch actually solidified the two Jump Jet build for the DS.

• JJ Class II (Victor)

Boost instant changed from 522.14 -> 200
Boost_z changed from 60.71 -> 68
Heat changed 0.1 -> 2.25, 0.25


How did PGI even come up with these values?? Victors get a jump jet vertical buff but all heavys got a nerf? I'm confused.