110 replies to this topic

[Jiang Wei]

Bhelogan, on 16 July 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

Because if you don't own them, you don't know how their mechanics work and you don't know their weaknesses. It's that fear of the unknown thing. Once there out for C-Bills, all the p2win crowd will be like, 'Oh, it isn't one hit auto win OMG OP No Skillz, like i've been crying for months'.

Nothing else new to see here, move along.

Everything you said is false. Your topic = zero.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 17 July 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bhelogan, on 16 July 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

Because if you don't own them, you don't know how their mechanics work and you don't know their weaknesses. It's that fear of the unknown thing. Once there out for C-Bills, all the p2win crowd will be like, 'Oh, it isn't one hit auto win OMG OP No Skillz, like i've been crying for months'.

Nothing else new to see here, move along.

All because PGI rolled out the Clans wrong. Now the entire community (the haves and the have-nots) both are complaining at each other and against each other.

PGI has effectively split it's community.

Imagine how much of this might have been avoided if maybe a week or two after the Clan launch, we had Clan trial mechs (1 trial mech for each class). Have-nots could have tried the mechs (although they couldn't change a thing on them), and they would have seen what the whole deal is about. Heck, it might have made some have-nots happy and they might have bought a Clan mech for MC because they liked the one they took for a spin.

Nope, lets keep people seperated for as long as possible. it breeds real good setiment in the community. All the posts hucking rocks back and forth at the Clanners and Non-Clanners are a good show of how the current way worked out.

[Petard]

Biaxialrain, on 17 July 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Wasted damage?

You mean not pinpoint damage don't you.

Look, they do more damage at further range, how can you argue with that unless you've paid and are trying to rationalize?

Kind of ironic, really, you throwing the word "rationalize" at somebody else...

Look, they have their own set of disadvantages built into the chassis, not to mention most of the weapons, how can you argue with that, unless you haven't paid and are trying to rationalize?

Edited by Petard, 18 July 2014 - 03:50 AM.

[Haipyng]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 July 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

All because PGI rolled out the Clans wrong. Now the entire community (the haves and the have-nots) both are complaining at each other and against each other.

PGI has effectively split it's community.

Imagine how much of this might have been avoided if maybe a week or two after the Clan launch, we had Clan trial mechs (1 trial mech for each class). Have-nots could have tried the mechs (although they couldn't change a thing on them), and they would have seen what the whole deal is about. Heck, it might have made some have-nots happy and they might have bought a Clan mech for MC because they liked the one they took for a spin.

Nope, lets keep people seperated for as long as possible. it breeds real good setiment in the community. All the posts hucking rocks back and forth at the Clanners and Non-Clanners are a good show of how the current way worked out.

Agreed. It would also be helpful to know a very generalized plan for CW is going to be? Star versus Lance? Mercs against Mercs? House/Clan versus House/Clan? Gives everyone an idea how the Clans are suppose to fit in because in the game as it is, Lore is out the window.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Haipyng, on 18 July 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

Agreed. It would also be helpful to know a very generalized plan for CW is going to be? Star versus Lance? Mercs against Mercs? House/Clan versus House/Clan? Gives everyone an idea how the Clans are suppose to fit in because in the game as it is, Lore is out the window.

Actually, I am expecting no real changes in the game play. The only difference is going to be that once you pick a faction, you gain points for that faction which will give some minor buffs and accolades.

Honestly seems about on par with something PGI has only taken a year or more to develop.

[Bhelogan]

Jiang Wei, on 17 July 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Everything you said is false. Your topic = zero.

False because you said so? What makes you an authority? You seem to fall exactly into the crowd I am talking about, but because you submit nothing to support your opinion to counter my claim, there is nothing to argue about.

[tayhimself]

There you go spouting this drivel again. If you can't do basic math you should avoid weapon balance discussions. Before I go further, your 6.75 damage number is wrong, as are your DPS numbers.

Viktor Drake, on 16 July 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

However Clan ER LL only does 6.75 damage in that 1 second interval that an IS ER LL will do 9 damage. That is massively significant. Also the IS ER LL will fire 3 times in the same space that the Clan ER LL fires 2 times due to the 0.5 second shorter beam duration. That puts the IS ER LL doing 27 damage over 3 seconds vs the Clan ER LL only doing 22.5, again a very significant dps disadvantage for Clan ER LLs. The factor in how much easier it is to hold and concentrate a 1 second duration than it is to hold a 1.5 second duration and you have even more of a disadvantage for the Clan ER LL.

Forgive the formatting, but the code below shows that while the IS has arguably the most important advantage, the clan ERLL is good. This ignores the targeting computer crit boosts.

			   Damage  Heat  Cooldown  Range  Slots  Weight  Duration  DPS  HPS
Advantage  clan	 -	   -	clan		clan	 clan	 IS	  clan	clan
 
IS ER LRG LASER  9  8.5  3.25  675  2  5  1  2.12  2
		
C-ER LRG LASER	11.25  8.5  3.25  890  1  4  1.5  2.37  1.79
		

Rest of your post snipped because it talks about pulse lasers (lol) and ignores probably the best weapon for non-pop tart gameplay the cERML.

[Siegegun]

Clans are not OP. If you are having issues something else is wrong. I am not a very good player, I overextend, get blood lust tunnel vision at times, do not play meta for the most part (never play jump snipers, after almost 2 years playing I just bought a jj mech like 2 months ago), I prefer brawling over range usually. I cut my teeth in this game using light mechs and I still seem to prefer them.

I have soloed dire whales in a locust more than once. As long as they are alone (which happens ALOT in the solo que, people there just leave their fatties behind), I have no problem staying behind one and just coring him out from behind.

I have, as just an experiment, taken my cata-4x and moved directly in front of Timber Wolves and traded blow by blow with them to see how well either mech could take it, it also reduces the pilot skill factor which I wanted to eliminate for the experiment as much as possible. My 4x has max armor and quad ac5's. 20 pinpoint Front Load Damage at ac5 recycle times and heat... the timber lost almost every time. Granted I was shredded and almost cored at the end.

I have many other such experiments and observations, and my point is not to "prove to the clans OP crowd" how wrong they are, just trying to give my opinion and experiences. The Clans are not OP they are just different. They play differently, and you have to adjust your play style to incorporate that, not just to fight them but to pilot them as well.

Also I would like to bring up a point I am not sure anyone has brought up. In a lot of ways it explains some of the massively varying viewpoints on this subject and why a lot of people say they are "situational" while others think they are just insanely powerful.

We all know on paper the clans do a lot of damage, assuming the entire "burn" time is on target. This damage is for the most part damage over time excluding certain weapons. The IS weapons have much more PP FLD weapons, but also have DoT weapons. To balance the Clans, one of the things PGI did was, while giving them more damage, they increased the burn time. This has the effect of spreading the damage a lot more, theoretically eliminating and mitigating the "extra" damage with spread. The longer burn time just adds more spread.

Heres the rub and the point I wanted to make. Everyone is not created equal in the ability to use certain weapon types. By weapon type I mean DoT weapons, PP FLD weapons. Some will be great at both systems, some will be good at one or the other. Thus someone that has no problems keeping most of the burn time on target vs. someone not good at it will deliver an insanely larger amount of damage than the other and more than likely be able to keep it "mostly" on one area of the mech as opposed to giving the mech a bath in laser light.

So if someone is fighting someone who is good at keeping the burn on target, the Clans will seem more powerful, reversely if someone is fighting someone who is terrible at keeping the burn on target, plus the defending pilot torso twists and spreads damage even more, the Clans will seem much much weaker.

Now add in the many other variables, loadout, heat efficiency, situational awareness, team communication, map etc and you make things SEEM even more lopsided. I am not saying they do not need a balance pass or that its all perfect. I am saying the illusion the Clans are PTW or OP is just that, an illusion. I am a bad player, I know it, and I have no problems with Clan mechs.

It boggles my mind I see so much QQ about Clans when even I have no overt fear of them, nor any more problems or less than I do with a lot of IS mechs.

[Mcgral18]

tayhimself, on 18 July 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

There you go spouting this drivel again. If you can't do basic math you should avoid weapon balance discussions. Before I go further, your 6.75 damage number is wrong, as are your DPS numbers.

Mind telling us how that number is wrong?

It takes the cERLL 1.2 seconds to deal 9 damage, then the "bonus" damage in the following .3 seconds.

isERLL does the 9 damage in 1.0 seconds. True, at shorter range. Same heat for both lasers.

[tayhimself]

Mcgral18, on 18 July 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Mind telling us how that number is wrong?
It takes the cERLL 1.2 seconds to deal 9 damage, then the "bonus" damage in the following .3 seconds.
isERLL does the 9 damage in 1.0 seconds. True, at shorter range. Same heat for both lasers.

What changed? Smurfy's says 1.5 seconds for 11.25 damage. Works to 7.5 damage in 1 second just under the IS LL which gives 9. Look I'm not saying the cERLL is great. But it's certainly better than the IS ERLL.

[KuroNyra]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

I think just about every game which introduces regular updates or expansions has this same concern, and the solution for each remains the same for most games: Players are encounraged to look for guides and strategies online through friends, teammates, the forums or even web searching. We have a whole section of the forums dedicated just to Mech Guides and there's also a number of great videos on YouTube offering tips and tricks from those who have mastered Mech Warfare.

Sadly, whiner's prefer to cry at the place of getting some infos about facing theses new opponents.