44 replies to this topic

[Seraphic Law]

Which would be the overall better way to go here in terms of Clan 2x LRM-20 vs Clan 2x LRM-15 + Artemis? And would tag help much in both cases or better off spending the extra ton on ammo?

Thanks

[BourbonFaucet]

1. Do you want more missiles or a shorter lock time? Artemis will allow for faster homing shots.

2. Do you have BAP installed? A lot of people expect you to take either BAP or TAG, maybe even both if you feel you need it, in order to counter ECM. I prefer BAP over TAG, but both might be what you need if you plan on constantly chucking LRM's with LOS.

The reason you want to take BAP and/or TAG is to help deal with ECM stackers.

Edited by Techorse, 16 July 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Clan 2x LRM-15 + Artemis. hands down.

I would only take a 20 if I only had 1 hard point to lose. A couple of misses with 2 lrm20's hurts a lot more than a few misses with 15s.

[Kitane]

Techorse, on 16 July 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

1. Do you want more missiles or a shorter lock time? Artemis will allow for faster homing shots.

2. Do you have BAP installed? A lot of people expect you to take either BAP or TAG, maybe even both if you feel you need it, in order to counter ECM. I prefer BAP over TAG, but both might be what you need if you plan on constantly chucking LRM's with LOS.

The reason you want to take BAP and/or TAG is to help deal with ECM stackers.

BAP or TAG? I don't get this choice, they are not interchangeable...

Edited by Kitane, 16 July 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[Kilo 40]

if you're going to run LRMs, BAP is mandatory.

[Seraphic Law]

I think I can fit LRM 20 + LRM 15 with Artemis, worth it or stick to two of the same?
And is Targeting Computer needed with BAP and/or TAG?

Edited by Seraphic Law, 16 July 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[BourbonFaucet]

Seraphic Law, on 16 July 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

I think I can fit LRM 20 + LRM 15 with Artemis, worth it or stick to two of the same?
And is Targeting Computer needed with BAP and/or TAG?

Targeting computer doesn't help LRM's, but I could be wrong.

[Lootee]

I removed artemis from all my mechs with LRMs. It doesn't stack with Narc and the weight saved can go towards moar ammo, heat sinks, bigger missile racks, a Narc launcher, or short range weapons.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 16 July 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Pjwned]

Techorse, on 16 July 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

1. Do you want more missiles or a shorter lock time? Artemis will allow for faster homing shots.

2. Do you have BAP installed? A lot of people expect you to take either BAP or TAG, maybe even both if you feel you need it, in order to counter ECM. I prefer BAP over TAG, but both might be what you need if you plan on constantly chucking LRM's with LOS.

The reason you want to take BAP and/or TAG is to help deal with ECM stackers.

You shouldn't need to take BAP if you're using LRMs because if you're within range for it to be effective then you're either playing wrong or they're aggressively trying to take you out for having LRMs, or both even.

[Ph30nix]

one thing about Artemis you only get the best of the bonus if YOU are the one with sight no the target. Without that you get no bonus sir GOOD DAY!

[CygnusX7]

Pjwned, on 16 July 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

You shouldn't need to take BAP if you're using LRMs because if you're within range for it to be effective then you're either playing wrong or they're aggressively trying to take you out for having LRMs, or both even.

BAP:
25% decreased target acquisition time.
25% increased target sensor range (the more info of where the enemy is the better).
+ advanced sensor range and target decay modules.

and a tag.

LRM godliness.

Edited by CygnusX7, 16 July 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Pjwned, on 16 July 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

You shouldn't need to take BAP if you're using LRMs because if you're within range for it to be effective then you're either playing wrong or they're aggressively trying to take you out for having LRMs, or both even.

Targeting Range of standard sensors 800m
Targeting range of BAP 1000m
Max range of Missiles 1000m

BAP is useful. I think misconception is regarding "target information gathering" which does not affect lock time. Same goes for Targeting computer.

I am not positive but BAP may also let you target/lock even when an ECM mech is nearby jamming you.

[Pjwned]

CygnusX7, on 16 July 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

BAP:
25% decreased target acquisition time.
25% increased target sensor range (the more info of where the enemy is the better).
+ advanced sensor range and target decay modules.

and a tag.

LRM godliness.

Target info gathering is different from acquisition and not exactly crucial for LRMs, and the advanced sensor range module should be more than enough without taking up space & tonnage like BAP does. I suppose if you really value that extra sensor range on top of the module as well then go ahead and use it, but if you ask me it makes more sense on a long range direct fire build than a LRM build which should cram more ammo in or something.

That's just my opinion though, you are of course free to have yours as well.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 16 July 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Targeting Range of standard sensors 800m
Targeting range of BAP 1000m
Max range of Missiles 1000m

BAP is useful. I think misconception is regarding "target information gathering" which does not affect lock time. Same goes for Targeting computer.

I am not positive but BAP may also let you target/lock even when an ECM mech is nearby jamming you.

Personally I prefer to not rely on countering ECM because if I'm running LRMs I shouldn't be in that kind of range anyways.

Edited by Pjwned, 16 July 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Lykaon]

Kilo 40, on 16 July 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

if you're going to run LRMs, BAP is mandatory.

For 1 crit and 1 ton I would almost say clan active probe is mandatory or at least strongly advised on ANY build LRMs or not.

[CygnusX7]

Pjwned, on 16 July 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Target info gathering is different from acquisition and not exactly crucial for LRMs, and the advanced sensor range module should be more than enough without taking up space & tonnage like BAP does. I suppose if you really value that extra sensor range on top of the module as well then go ahead and use it, but if you ask me it makes more sense on a long range direct fire build than a LRM build which should cram more ammo in or something.

That's just my opinion though, you are of course free to have yours as well.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you but BAP decreases target acquisition by 25% meaning you can fire your missiles 25% sooner than you could without it. Add Target Decay to that and your targets are held for 3.5 seconds longer than they would be without it.

All that Target Info Gathering does is give you mech information sooner. Not target it sooner.

[Bobzilla]

Take LRM5's and chain fire to spam the enemy for suppression or cockpit effects. Then take the extra tons/slot and put them into other weapons. It will help your team and yourself much more.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Artemis is a little iffy for Clan LRMs for two reasons.

One, is due to the stream firing, the tightening of the missiles is not as noticeable...if it does anything at all...I'm not sure.

Second, is Clan LRMs seem to be bugged (maybe IS too, haven't played much IS lately), and even when it shows a lock the first shot fires into the dirt.

I'm not sure if the fact that Artemis speeds up your lock times is part of the problem, or if it's even worth having with that bug.

Generally though, the MAIN benefit for Clan LRMs via Artemis would be getting a quicker lock, which makes it more likely to hit your target before they get into cover...assuming the shot doesn't bug out.

It also allows for faster relocks if you lose lock and are trying to reaquire to have the missiles change course.

[Sephlock]

Bobzilla, on 16 July 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Take LRM5's and chain fire to spam the enemy for suppression or cockpit effects. Then take the extra tons/slot and put them into other weapons. It will help your team and yourself much more.

Has anyone tried this with Clan mechs yet?

Hey Bishop, have you tried this with a Summoner yet? How did it work out?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Edit: Also BAP/CAP lowers lock on time for LRMs and SRMs but it is not specifically spelled out in the equipment. I would not run LRMs without BAP/CAP due to that and the ECM negation.

[Sephlock]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 16 July 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Generally though, the MAIN benefit for Clan LRMs via Artemis would be getting a quicker lock, which makes it more likely to hit your target before they get into cover...assuming the shot doesn't bug out.

It also allows for faster relocks if you lose lock and are trying to reaquire to have the missiles change course.

Can someone tweet at them and find out if they are working on the problem?