36 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

The spawn points would be fine if you weren't spawned in a location that allowed you to be segregated from the rest of your team before you can even move or start having LRMs dropped on your head withint 10 seconds of starting the match.

Bigger maps would fix this, the spawn points are fin other than that in my opinion

[Odins Fist]

BatWing, on 16 July 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

LOL !! My friend .. welcome to MWO, the land of the QQs and the people that plays this game just to "stompo big robots" and then repeat... reload and repeat.. with no sense.

You are possibly a new player,

He (the OP) has 1125 posts, you have 307.. (facepalm)

[Lyoto Machida]

Odins Fist, on 16 July 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

He (the OP) has 1125 posts, you have 307.. (facepalm)

What does that have to do with anything? I've seen Founders posting recently with like 5 posts.

For what it's worth, BatWing joined in 2011 and OP joined in 2012.

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

What does that have to do with anything? I've seen Founders posting recently with like 5 posts.

For what it's worth, BatWing joined in 2011 and OP joined in 2012.

Point being he called the op out for "possibly being a new player" that's what odin was pointing out

[Livewyr]

They separated the spawns in order to encourage more Lance/Star independence rather than 12 man blobs..

I prefer the new spawns to the old ones, even when I am the Dire Wolf spawned light years from the usual battle space.

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 16 July 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Point being he called the op out for "possibly being a new player" that's what odin was pointing out

"Possibly" being the keyword. Also, I don't see what post count has to do with it...people who post more have been here longer? Btw, I've seen plenty of scrubby Founders in-game.

I'm surprised Odin didn't mention "participation trophies" in there somehow.

[Odins Fist]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

For what it's worth, BatWing joined in 2011 and OP joined in 2012.

For what it's worth, DILLIGAF..???

Possibly a new player with over a THOUSAND posts.. Ok Chief.

2+2=4, 2+2 does not equal popcorn...

EDIT: What do you want a participation trophy or something..??

DOUBLE EDIT: I think the current spawn points are "acceptable", nothing more and nothing less.

Edited by Odins Fist, 16 July 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

mogs01gt, on 16 July 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

The theory of spawning in different locations supports the aspects of lances.

Practice has proved that theory worthless for pug matches.

For group play, the spawn points are fine. For the solo queue it just wrecks it.

[Karamarka]

Wheres my dropship entrance? Like in dat purdy Atlas Trailer from 2011-2012. ?

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

"Possibly" being the keyword. Also, I don't see what post count has to do with it...people who post more have been here longer? Btw, I've seen plenty of scrubby Founders in-game.

I'm surprised Odin didn't mention "participation trophies" in there somehow.

you can't be a "new" player if you've been here for a year plus dude

I don't see what skill level has to do with time spent playing the game...

[DAYLEET]

Livewyr, on 16 July 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

They separated the spawns in order to encourage more Lance/Star independence rather than 12 man blobs..

And that has worked so well so far right? A line of mech is infinitely superior to a group of mech who can readily work together.
At least before you had the option of breaking the group and go somewhere else with others. Now all you have is lance B and C running after A over and over.

TB Freelancer, on 16 July 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Practice has proved that theory worthless for pug matches.

For group play, the spawn points are fine. For the solo queue it just wrecks it.

Ya maybe it works in 12mans. Pugs suck it though.

[Livewyr]

DAYLEET, on 16 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

And that has worked so well so far right? A line of mech is infinitely superior to a group of mech who can readily work together.
At least before you had the option of breaking the group and go somewhere else with others. Now all you have is lance B and C running after A over and over.

You will never entirely cure players of the Sheeple Syndrome- however, I have noticed significantly more cases of Lances operating independently. (Flanks and things like that.) That almost never happened with the old spawns, because it would be too risky to try and splinter from the group while the enemy remained a blob.

It ALSO prevents the group from starting out as a blob, meaning that there is time to effect their force before it becomes a swirling mass of unimaginativeness. (Made up word, but you get the idea.)

It has ALSO all but eliminated the trial of trying to escape your spawn every single match.


This has opened up more options than blobbing around, and I am thankful for that.

[DAYLEET]

Maybe we can find a middle ground. Because while i agree with most of what you said, i strongly disagree with "This has opened up more options than blobbing around.". Now we are bound by lance, the map are too small to set anything but go into a merry chase. Group aren't defined better with the lances they are gimped, you never know what you are going to get and that means you are always going to do the same thing, try and catch up.

Id rather have people taking position on the left because they went on the left and wanted/felt needed there.

[Lyoto Machida]

BatWing, on 16 July 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

LOL !! My friend .. welcome to MWO, the land of the QQs and the people that plays this game just to "stompo big robots" and then repeat... reload and repeat.. with no sense.

You are possibly a new player, because for other of us, a little bit older on this 'rollercoaster" we HAD the nice Spawns in the past.

it was exactly the way you asked, well.. maybe "not in cover" but at least the team was spawning together.

Wow, that made sense, a team drops together, therefore spawn together! Too easy?? yeah, indeed too easy.

In fact then the "community" of Solo players, not interested in any teamplay, started crying that on large maps it was taking "too long to get into the brawling or even find the enemy, if they spawn so far away!!"

So, .. "large maps"... in MWO there are barely 2 or 3 "large maps" (in my opinion in this game there is nothing resembling a large map, but don t even get me started..).

Therefore the spawn point got modified in the non sense we have today..

that was because if you notice ( and you know that, because you got stormed right after spawn..), the new spawn points are created to facilitate "fast engagement lance vs lance". Which is actually not even completely true, but at least 1 lance spawns very close to the enemy lance, so the options are 2:
1 - either you try to engage the enemy with your single lance (and possibly die because a smart enemy will regroup and obliterate you)

or 2 - you run as fast as you can from your spawn point to try to regroup with the rest of yours. Not always works because quite often, other players "not interested in teamplay" will not give a royal crap you are a slow Assault at 1300 mtrs away who need support, and they will leave you die there, in case the enemy decides to storm you.

Very myopic decision because losing a lance like that will doom the rest of the match.. but hey do not try to explain such "high tactic concepts' to your team mates, only a small percentage will appreciate at least your effort to help.

So, today, thanks to people who considered these maps 'too big" and were bored of having a minimal of 'tactical activity", we spawn with 1 lance on the right, one lance on the left and over 2000 mtrs in between...

Have fun if your speed is anywhere around 50kph....

Sandpit, on 16 July 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

you can't be a "new" player if you've been here for a year plus dude

I don't see what skill level has to do with time spent playing the game...

I put the original post we're discussing above yours...he never mentioned the join date. I've been on forums where some guys have 500+ posts in their first month...doesn't mean they're not new still. Not every checks the OP's join date or post count when they reply to them.

My point was that post count and time in the game have nothing to do with actual skill level in the game...which was also my point when I said I've seen Founders that still suck in this game.

Go back and read the thread...it's only a 2 page thread so it shouldn't take too long.

[Quxudica]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Pretty sure the OP is new and not a fan of Battletech, as he advocated only having LRMs coming in from off-map AI units or something in another thread and not allowing them to be equipped on mechs.

I've Dabbled in BT many moons ago, played MW since the early computer days and MWO since Closed Beta. I was around long enough ago to remember quad AC/20 Commando's even. In that time I've run at least one chassis of every weight class and filled every roll, even LRM boats. I make no claim to be the best of pilots, but you don't need to be to understand that Table Top rules for a turned based strategy game and fluff for a fiction series do not translate 100% into the mechanics for an enjoyable First Person mech sim. There actually is a stand-off missile system in the lore, though I forget what it's called, that people expected PGI to add a long time ago that would be fired in from outside the map like airstrikes but that never manifested. I don't know if that's the best solution for the LRM problem, but LRMs have been among the most problematic weapons to balance in MWO since CB and I believe it's inherent to the weapon systems mechanics.

I've also posted about the need for allowing players to choose their mech after the map is selected, the fact that the heat system from TT should be implemented instead of the ridiculous ghost heat bandaid, that RNR did nothing but hamper build creativity and unduly punish ammo intensive or large mechs, that alphas should not converge on a crosshair but rather be a cone of fire, that the entire concept of Hero Mechs is reprehensible as implemented (along with PGIs pricing in general) and many other somewhat unpopular opinions. (I honestly don't know why PGI wasn't laughed out of business for 500 USD yellow skinned mechs. I'm thoroughly depressed that some of them apparently sold out)

Among these I have made many posts over the years reflecting my distaste for how lock on weapons have been handled in MWO, and as has been stated already - the new spawn system may be lore friendly and work alright for premades but for PuGs it's highly impractical. If PGI had ever bothered to include in-game voice chat (most players will never visit the forums, even fewer will bother with the thirdparty voip tools) it might work, maybe.. (probably not), but with nothing but text the best course of action in the majority of pug games is to link up all three lances and stay as a cohesive group. Especially as a slow Brawler that depends heavily on positioning and team support. You need better communication to co-ordinate smaller groups and succeed based on anything but luck.

Honestly though I'd be fine with the separated spawns if they, at least, organized each spawn by weight class as someone here mentioned (much more randomized start locations could also be interesting). Having 100 tonners spawn the farthest back on the biggest maps is beyond annoying..especially for those of us that do not particularly want to snipe. My biggest issues are how far away it can spawn the slowest mechs, and the fact some of those spawns result in immediate unanswerable damage taken because they are very poorly placed. Tourmaline is probably the biggest offender in that particular category.

Personally, I'd love a much more in depth game. One where a team (even a pug team) can communicate over in-game voice in a pre-game lobby, arrange it's own lances, select it's own drop points, and run game modes with real objectives that aren't just two variants of "stand in the square" and TDM. But this is PGI, gotta take what you can get.. even CW is nothing but vaporware far as I'm concerned until it is out at this point.

I really miss game lobbies and non-random match making.. sad that SOCOM on PS2 had better online FPS set up options and communications over a decade ago than a computer game does in 2014.. What was this thread about again? yay tangents.

[Lyoto Machida]

Quxudica, on 16 July 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

I've Dabbled in BT many moons ago, played MW since the early computer days and MWO since Closed Beta. I was around long enough ago to remember quad AC/20 Commando's even. In that time I've run at least one chassis of every weight class and filled every roll, even LRM boats. I make no claim to be the best of pilots, but you don't need to be to understand that Table Top rules for a turned based strategy game and fluff for a fiction series do not translate 100% into the mechanics for an enjoyable First Person mech sim. There actually is a stand-off missile system in the lore, though I forget what it's called, that people expected PGI to add a long time ago that would be fired in from outside the map like airstrikes but that never manifested. I don't know if that's the best solution for the LRM problem, but LRMs have been among the most problematic weapons to balance in MWO since CB and I believe it's inherent to the weapon systems mechanics.

I've also posted about the need for allowing players to choose their mech after the map is selected, the fact that the heat system from TT should be implemented instead of the ridiculous ghost heat bandaid, that RNR did nothing but hamper build creativity and unduly punish ammo intensive or large mechs, that alphas should not converge on a crosshair but rather be a cone of fire, that the entire concept of Hero Mechs is reprehensible as implemented (along with PGIs pricing in general) and many other somewhat unpopular opinions. (I honestly don't know why PGI wasn't laughed out of business for 500 USD yellow skinned mechs. I'm thoroughly depressed that some of them apparently sold out)

Among these I have made many posts over the years reflecting my distaste for how lock on weapons have been handled in MWO, and as has been stated already - the new spawn system may be lore friendly and work alright for premades but for PuGs it's highly impractical. If PGI had ever bothered to include in-game voice chat (most players will never visit the forums, even fewer will bother with the thirdparty voip tools) it might work, maybe.. (probably not), but with nothing but text the best course of action in the majority of pug games is to link up all three lances and stay as a cohesive group. Especially as a slow Brawler that depends heavily on positioning and team support. You need better communication to co-ordinate smaller groups and succeed based on anything but luck.

Honestly though I'd be fine with the separated spawns if they, at least, organized each spawn by weight class as someone here mentioned (much more randomized start locations could also be interesting). Having 100 tonners spawn the farthest back on the biggest maps is beyond annoying..especially for those of us that do not particularly want to snipe. My biggest issues are how far away it can spawn the slowest mechs, and the fact some of those spawns result in immediate unanswerable damage taken because they are very poorly placed. Tourmaline is probably the biggest offender in that particular category.

Personally, I'd love a much more in depth game. One where a team (even a pug team) can communicate over in-game voice in a pre-game lobby, arrange it's own lances, select it's own drop points, and run game modes with real objectives that aren't just two variants of "stand in the square" and TDM. But this is PGI, gotta take what you can get.. even CW is nothing but vaporware far as I'm concerned until it is out at this point.

I really miss game lobbies and non-random match making.. sad that SOCOM on PS2 had better online FPS set up options and communications over a decade ago than a computer game does in 2014.. What was this thread about again? yay tangents.

Can't really argue with what you're saying there. As an LRM user, I'd love it if they got rid of indirect fire unless TAG/NARC/UAV was used...that would solve a lot of the noob/scrub whining about LRMs.

Not sure what weapon you were referring to...maybe the Arrow IV?

[mogs01gt]

TB Freelancer, on 16 July 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Practice has proved that theory worthless for pug matches.

For group play, the spawn points are fine. For the solo queue it just wrecks it.

and? I wasnt stating it was good or bad...