199 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

I don't think this is a great idea... the 50 pt alpha dire wolf build maybe I could see avoiding that, but 2 PPC-Gauss is not that bad. A Stormcrow can do a 57 pt alpha... it is an amazing flanker that is probably one of the stronger builds out there.

But that's 57 vs 35 for the 2 PPC-Gauss.. DoT sure, but I know a couple guys that can hold lasers on target very well..

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

How many band aid systems are required to "fix" a "problem"?

IF your going to roll with energy draw limitations, this is fine, but remove some of the other band **** like the gauss charge up time, and the energy limitations should apply across the board not just to one or two weapon subsystems.

Not really the goal is only to limit front loaded pin point damage. And even more exact is longer range pin point damage. The band aid will work fine.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

XX Sulla XX, on 17 July 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Not really the goal is only to limit front loaded pin point damage. And even more exact is longer range pin point damage. The band aid will work fine.

Because all we want to do is spray peanuts at each other at less than 300M.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

My elo likely sucks. I dont even bother checking my stats and could hardly care. I'm just an average player. I solo most of the time unlike all the big wig competitive players who would be scorned to be in a smaller than 4 man group. I just use a bit of grey matter when i play. That is all. Grey matter seems to be at a premium when i pug

Thats fine is the change has no effect on your game then its fine. Cant make the game so every player in every Elo never gets hit.

Quote

I don't think this is a great idea... the 50 pt alpha dire wolf build maybe I could see avoiding that, but 2 PPC-Gauss is not that bad. A Stormcrow can do a 57 pt alpha... it is an amazing flanker that is probably one of the stronger builds out there.

But that's 57 vs 35 for the 2 PPC-Gauss.. DoT sure, but I know a couple guys that can hold lasers on target very well..

Sure two gauss are not to bad and two PPC are not to bad but the 4 together is to much or a combo of three. And Clan lasers can be deadly but you can spread the damage if you try at all.

Quote

Because all we want to do is spray peanuts at each other at less than 300M.

No I for one want snipers and also front loaded damage. I just want a good balance.

[Hobgoblin I]

Let's just turn our big stompy robots into big ankle biting robots when nobody can die. If a big giant direwolf gets a free shot at a locust, the locust should die. Sometimes you can do nothing wrong and still get killed. This is mechWARRIOR online, not mech candyland online.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

XX Sulla XX, on 17 July 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

No I for one want snipers and also front loaded damage. I just want a good balance.

Balance is a myth, there is always something better than something else, all these band **** do is continue the circle of PGI's balance attempts.

People will just move to the next best thing, people will whine, PGI will nerf and band aid this and we move on and on and on.

Fix the core problem (of which there have been countless threads on how too), and remove the band ****.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Balance is a myth, there is always something better than something else, all these band **** do is continue the circle of PGI's balance attempts.

People will just move to the next best thing, people will whine, PGI will nerf and band aid this and we move on and on and on.

Fix the core problem (of which there have been countless threads on how too), and remove the band ****.

Its not a myth its just not every perfect And despite the constant complaining the game balance is in a pretty good spot. Not perfect but not bad either.

[YueFei]

xXBagheeraXx, on 17 July 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

Half second isn't enough to even hit the "s" key and get back into cover for most decent snipers. Thats more than enough for me to land a follow up shot.

Half a second is enough time for me to duck back behind a hill if I run along its crest instead of doing the forward/reverse hill-humping dance. =/

Quote

My point in mentioning nova pilots was that the only mechs I see actually trying to twist damage are mechs that lose most of thier armament or mobility by doing so. Nova arms have NO armor whatsoever so rolling that damage in the arms will just get you stripped. and then ct killed from the side since your nose sticks out like nobodies business. The people that SHOULD be rolling it. Dont.

Pugs dont twist. Pugs dont utilize cover. Pugs keep peeking out and getting alphaed in the face. Then they go in the forums and whine and moan about clan mechs being OP. Clan mechs arent op. Stupidity is. Not saying you are stupid, but im going by what I see when I solo drop.

My entire point is The nerf isnt going to do anything. and even if it makes the 50 point alpha build unusable, There are much nastier alternatives with even high alpha.

Alot of nerfs don't really help bad players survive. But sometimes a nerf makes sense. Remember when PPCs were 8 heat? Bumping them to 10 probably didn't help bad players survive. But it helped better players survive a little longer because the shooter using those PPCs would overheat sooner.

I'm not a fantastic player, just mediocre. My feeling is that breaking up a single big PP FLD into smaller chunks would give more margin for the guy being shot at to maneuver defensively, and I think that makes the game more interesting. Instead of all-or-nothing in a split second moment, there's a chance for both players to interact meaningfully, both the shooter trying to adjust his follow-up shot, and the victim trying to protect himself.

My motivation is not to give myself a better chance of winning. I know it won't. Better players will still defeat me. I'm motivated by the desire to see the game made more interesting, that's all.

[Cyborne Elemental]

CONVERGENCE?? CONVERGENCE!!!

Use your brainpower.
Figure it out (not really that hard IMO)
Put it in.
Ghost heat can go away.
Jumpjets can be fun again.
All the stupid nerfs can be reverted.

But NOOOOOOOOO!

I'm going to do every crazy thing I can think of instead, break the game along the way, say working as intended, when I know its not working, defend it tooth and nail, then break some more stuff.

When the answer is staring me in the face, I scratch my head, whats that C word I was looking for that could fix things?

Edited by Mister D, 18 July 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[John80sk]

People will just find a way around it. PPC/LBX-5's seems like the most likely direction. Nerfing the PPC/Gauss combo will also just make the Dragon Slayer PPC/AC5 build into even more of an apex predator.

Going down this road will lead us to a place where you can only fire small lasers in a group.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

People will just find a way around it. PPC/LBX-5's seems like the most likely direction. Nerfing the PPC/Gauss combo will also just make the Dragon Slayer PPC/AC5 build into even more of an apex predator.

Going down this road will lead us to a place where you can only fire small lasers in a group

Its not going to be the same. You have to take into consideration speed, weight and range etc. Something will be next best but will not be as good.

And no the goal for a while from PGI has been to limit pin point alphas to about 30. Exceptions need to have strong drawbacks. And a poll a did at one time on the forum showed most people came in at the same range as a rough limit.

[BOWMANGR]

Hobgoblin I, on 18 July 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

Let's just turn our big stompy robots into big ankle biting robots when nobody can die. If a big giant direwolf gets a free shot at a locust, the locust should die. Sometimes you can do nothing wrong and still get killed. This is mechWARRIOR online, not mech candyland online.

I assume you pilot assaults right?

[Gas Guzzler]

XX Sulla XX, on 17 July 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

Sure two gauss are not to bad and two PPC are not to bad but the 4 together is to much or a combo of three. And Clan lasers can be deadly but you can spread the damage if you try at all.

Two PPC and a Gauss is not that much better then two gauss, and doesn't sync as well. I don't feel dual gauss should be allowed while Two PPCs and a gauss are not...

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 July 2014 - 01:59 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

gauss + ppc are pretty easy to kill actually if you understand how they work. Went head to head with a Cataphract with two gauss and one ER PPC. I'm in my one U-AC20 and three medlas Stormcrow.

He already got a couple shots on me. So I said screw this and got real close to him. I came up to him, torso twisted, and let him shoot me.
*pang!boosh..*
Internal Timer starts..

I look at him head on, fire my three med las. The beams fade. By now his cooldowns are up and he's charging. Fire the UAC 20. The screen shake forces him to hold his fire - these snipers are hell-bent on "perfect shots". His gauss likely ends up losing their charge, and another round of Medlas goes into his CT. Since it's an Ultra ac20, I can fire again without waiting when I feel as if he's lining up another shot. A second or two later, fire the UAC20 and a third round of medlas. By now he's lost his front and some of his side torso armor. And hasn't fired a shot at me yet.
I disengage behind an obstacle to let my UAC reload and I'm back at it. I killed him and only sustained a shot or two from his ppc.
When he's under such pressure, and if unskilled, they can easily get confused with the charging mechanic/timing of their shots, which usually end up in misfires or discharging of the gauss.
Personally, I love fighting those gauss+ppc builds.

PPC and AC10 are a bit different. You don't have the charge mechanic on your side so you need to be a little more creative. Don't engage if you're going to get out-maneuvered or don't know how/when to torso twist. PPC+AC10 just adds and extra step to your planning, but that's no biggie if you have the PPC+Gauge guys figured.

TL;DR, It's not a matter of getting in their face. Use screenshake to your advantage. Hold your fire and understand your opponent's weaknesses.. AND strengths. Understand what your weapons do. Little things like screen shake can rattle your opponent and scare or trick them into not firing their weapons.

[Ursh]

xXBagheeraXx, on 17 July 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

My elo likely sucks. I dont even bother checking my stats and could hardly care. I'm just an average player. I solo most of the time unlike all the big wig competitive players who would be scorned to be in a smaller than 4 man group. I just use a bit of grey matter when i play. That is all. Grey matter seems to be at a premium when i pug.

I've seen you in enough games to confirm this. I don't mean that snarkily, just that I'm also an average player who solos a lot, so we end up in the same matches when your playtimes coincide. I'm the guy saying "gl, diaf" at the beginning of matches and "gg, diaf" at the end of matches. Win or lose, it's my belief that people can always find time to go die in a fire.

[Karamarka]

IF they add this

they should revert JJ

[Widowmaker1981]

Mister D, on 18 July 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

CONVERGENCE?? CONVERGENCE!!!

Use your brainpower.
Figure it out (not really that hard IMO)
Put it in.
Ghost heat can go away.
Jumpjets can be fun again.
All the stupid nerfs can be reverted.

But NOOOOOOOOO!

I'm going to do every crazy thing I can think of instead, break the game along the way, say working as intended, when I know its not working, defend it tooth and nail, then break some more stuff.

When the answer is staring me in the face, I scratch my head, whats that C word I was looking for that could fix things?

as has been stated about 33232424523421342131321 times on these forums, by PGI and others, delayed convergence does. not. work. with Host State Rewind. And hitting the target you are aiming at when you nailed it in the head on your screen is more important. if you had to aim into empty air to hit things due to ping (and a variable amount in front, depending on what that ping is) i would quit instantly, cos the game would suck.

so please, please stop going on about convergence. its not a technically possible solution.

[John80sk]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 July 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Its not going to be the same. You have to take into consideration speed, weight and range etc. Something will be next best but will not be as good.

And no the goal for a while from PGI has been to limit pin point alphas to about 30. Exceptions need to have strong drawbacks. And a poll a did at one time on the forum showed most people came in at the same range as a rough limit.

The MetaWhale goes 53 (with speed tweak), has low mounted weapons, and is jealous of the Awesome's profile. I would call those strong drawbacks.

The MetaWhale excels at one thing, and that's killing stupid pilots. Not saying I've never been downed by one... only that when I was downed by one it was because I did something stupid.

[bluepiglet]

I have a feeling that a river of tears will be cried out by these Dire abusers when the fix is applied....

[Cyborne Elemental]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 July 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

as has been stated about 33232424523421342131321 times on these forums, by PGI and others, delayed convergence does. not. work. with Host State Rewind. And hitting the target you are aiming at when you nailed it in the head on your screen is more important. if you had to aim into empty air to hit things due to ping (and a variable amount in front, depending on what that ping is) i would quit instantly, cos the game would suck.

so please, please stop going on about convergence. its not a technically possible solution.

LRM lockon code is already in the game.

A simple Convergence setup can work exactly like the LRM lockon does NOW.

All hardpoints aiming dead ahead to infinity, once a selected target is within a FOV cone (so many degrees based on distance) the hardpoints start to come together, target moves out of FOV cone, Hardpoints slowly drift back to 0,

Im not saying its going to be a piece of cake, and it will take some sensible rebalancing of ECM, and maybe a couple modules.

But it can work with HSR, "IF" it gets done right.

Its definately a smarter decision than adding in all these wonky and convoluted work-arounds, you still end up with the same problem, and likely even more.

The autofocus that we have right now, is actually part of the problem, because you try to lead a target and its throwing off your convergence even worse, because you could be pointed at something 1000 meters away, could be 100, and it changes instantly so you never have a solid reference to where you can be aiming and put damage reliably on target while leading.

You have it stuck in your head that your weapons without convergence will be spraying all over hell like when you are holding down the JJ's and your weapon Hardpoints are doing the walleye vision thing each aiming at a different point offset by like 80 degrees from where you're aiming.

Thats not what Convergence needs to be, and not what I'm talking about at all.

The spread of 0 convergence "should" be simply each hardpoint aiming perfectly straight ahead, but none of them are focused to the dead center of your crosshair.

Edited by Mister D, 18 July 2014 - 03:13 AM.