52 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

This replies made me chuckle. To mirror what someone else said.

I shouldn't be penalized for ff because joe derp isn't paying attention or just didn't care and runs across my firing line as I shoot

[poopenshire]

during the heat of battle, well it happens. we move on, most of the time.

when it happens in spawn its team treason, plain and simple. There is no enemy in the spawn with you and if your weapons groups are not set, well thats your fault. never go to battle without checking your equipment first.

THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO FIRE IN THE SPAWN ZONES AT THE START OF A MATCH.

[Sandpit]

poopenshire, on 18 July 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

during the heat of battle, well it happens. we move on, most of the time.

when it happens in spawn its team treason, plain and simple. There is no enemy in the spawn with you and if your weapons groups are not set, well thats your fault. never go to battle without checking your equipment first.

THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO FIRE IN THE SPAWN ZONES AT THE START OF A MATCH.

Agreed.
We've had that issue since cb. Not as often but still

[Bobzilla]

Sandpit, on 18 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

This replies made me chuckle. To mirror what someone else said.

I shouldn't be penalized for ff because joe derp isn't paying attention or just didn't care and runs across my firing line as I shoot

FF can be unavoidable by the shooter at times. But if you have any situational awareness it is completely avoidable 99.99% of the time and of that 0.01% it can usually be minimized to almost nothing anyways. Do you not agree?

How often do you FF and it was completely out of your control vs FF because you were taking a risk because you didn't care as there isn't really any penalty to you and all the risk is taken by the teammate??

[wanderer]

Quote

The game tracks the damage, kills, assists and damage done to the enemy....how hard would it be to have it track the same for friendlies?

It already does. Friendly fire damage is factored in when they do calcuations for the factional tournaments. It simply has no effect on current gameplay.

I'd have zero problems with penalties to C-bills/exp for FF hits. It'd encourage more rage than PGI deciding to triple LRM damage.

[Zoid]

lockwoodx, on 18 July 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Until players stop getting rewarded for killing blows, Friendly Fire will always be an issue.

Holy crap this. I got a TK the other day because I was in at Atlas shooting at a Stalker and a Cataphract not walked, but JUMPED in front of me trying to steal the KB. We still won though, so I can't say I'm upset by seeing him get what he deserved for being an idiot.

[Mavairo]

Vassago Rain, on 18 July 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

I've adopted a zero tolerance policy for teamkilling and obvious friendly fire. In the olden days, the match was lost the moment a premad decided to TK their ECM totem pole, but now that I can bring a 10 man, having to put down two annoying clan lights isn't quite as disruptive.



The most hilarious thing so far was a wolf three man of forumwarriors who were outright shocked that I actually know how to pilot assault gundams.

If I see a guy facehugging the enemy, and he doesn't have the sense to get clear, I'll let it fly. He obviously doesn't care about his own safety, so I sure as hell am not going to. Besides anyone who's Facehugging, or stepping out infront of a choke point blocking his entire team's shots is someone that probably can't hit the broad side of a barn anyway. So nothing of value is lost if he dies from my 50 point alpha, you know? If he just -happens- to in his face hug spree put his back between me and the enemy (and if he's blocking my shots, he's probably blocking at least three to four others too) he should have thought about where he was, and where the team was.

If he steps out in a firing lane so he can stand infront of the enemy and politely exchange gunfire, and block the shots of the full team, well... I'm just going to make him a better door than window. Probably the only time I will Deliberately TK someone.

[JimLahey]

Sandpit, on 18 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

This replies made me chuckle. To mirror what someone else said.

I shouldn't be penalized for ff because joe derp isn't paying attention or just didn't care and runs across my firing line as I shoot

This x 1,000

It's to the point now where I just keep shooting. I you're too stupid to not see the giant flames coming out of the front of my dakka jag and walk in front of me while I'm engaging the enemy, you deserve to get shot up.

[deadmedo]

I had few of occasions when i died or got killed by getting in the line of fire of other friendly mechs. And that's ok, since it's your/his/her fault for getting in your/his/her way.
But I had a few occasions where my teammate shot me for no reason. Like one time when I was baddly damaged and retreated behind a hill to wait for them to come, and he shot me from behind cause 'You're piloting an Atlas and it's your duty to go to the first line and die'.
Also I hate when I get shot in the begging of the match by your lance mech because he likes to shoot anything that he sees.

[Rhent]

Its pretty easy, every time you do friendly fire, show an alert and give them a penalty on XP and C-Bill generation and thats it. If you manage to kill a teams mech then your mech is frozen after the match for 1 hour.

You shoot a guy with 60 damage to the back, you show on the hud that you lost some XP and Cbills. There really is nothing you can penalize players with except time and losing their mechs.

[wanderer]

Quote

If you manage to kill a teams mech then your mech is frozen after the match for 1 hour.

So basically, if you decided to teabag that 'Mech I shot at with LRMs from 700m away and get killed, I'm locked out for an hour?

Nope.

[nehebkau]

Fining people for FF is the stupidest idea. I am very careful with my shooting and often times, specially with lasers and the new clan UACs one of my team-mates will walk right in front of line of fire. Likewise, I have seen players go nose to nose with an enemy that is getting LRM bombarded and get themselves shredded in the process.

Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea.

Good idea: TRACK AND SHOW FF DAMAGE ON THE SUMMARY SCREEN. Yes, let everyone see, at the end of the match, how much FF each player did. Maybe it will help some players to realize that they are doing FF damage and let the rest of us know who we need to give a wide berth to in other matches.

Edited by nehebkau, 18 July 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[WarHippy]

Bobzilla, on 18 July 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

FF can be unavoidable by the shooter at times. But if you have any situational awareness it is completely avoidable 99.99% of the time and of that 0.01% it can usually be minimized to almost nothing anyways. Do you not agree?

How often do you FF and it was completely out of your control vs FF because you were taking a risk because you didn't care as there isn't really any penalty to you and all the risk is taken by the teammate??

You put way too much of the onus on the shooter for their situational awareness, and very little on the one getting shot. So I would have to adamantly disagree with you that it is avoidable at anywhere near the ratio you are indicating. You can't punish someone in this setting for something out of their control and expect people to be ok with it.

[nehebkau]

Mavairo, on 18 July 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

If I see a guy facehugging the enemy, and he doesn't have the sense to get clear, I'll let it fly. He obviously doesn't care about his own safety, so I sure as hell am not going to. Besides anyone who's Facehugging, or stepping out infront of a choke point blocking his entire team's shots is someone that probably can't hit the broad side of a barn anyway. So nothing of value is lost if he dies from my 50 point alpha, you know? If he just -happens- to in his face hug spree put his back between me and the enemy (and if he's blocking my shots, he's probably blocking at least three to four others too) he should have thought about where he was, and where the team was.

If he steps out in a firing lane so he can stand infront of the enemy and politely exchange gunfire, and block the shots of the full team, well... I'm just going to make him a better door than window. Probably the only time I will Deliberately TK someone.

Wow, that is the stupidest mentality. Sometimes knowing when to NOT shoot is as important when to shoot. Why the heck wouldn't you jjust let that guy in the choke point get shot up by the enemy and maybe do some damage to him before he dies? He makes them use up their ammo, increase their heat values and , maybe, make them take some damage.

"I'm gunna shoot you cause you are in my way and I'm a better player then you and i want the killz" <--- raw shortsighted stupidity.

Edited by nehebkau, 18 July 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[WarHippy]

nehebkau, on 18 July 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Fining people for FF is the stupidest idea. I am very careful with my shooting and often times, specially with lasers and the new clan UACs one of my team-mates will walk right in front of line of fire. Likewise, I have seen players go nose to nose with an enemy that is getting LRM bombarded and get themselves shredded in the process.

Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea. Dumb idea.

Good idea: TRACK AND SHOW FF DAMAGE ON THE SUMMARY SCREEN. Yes, let everyone see, at the end of the match, how much FF each player did. Maybe it will help some players to realize that they are doing FF damage and let the rest of us know who we need to give a wide berth to in other matches.

I agree with everything you said up until the "good idea" part because that is also a bad idea. Just seeing numbers on the screen gives no context as to how the damage was done, or who caused it to happen in the first place, and giving players this data so they can use it to point fingers at teammates because of some misguided sense of justice is only going to lead to frustrations for players that don't disserve it.

[Mavairo]

nehebkau, on 18 July 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Wow, that is the stupidest mentality. Sometimes knowing when to NOT shoot is as important when to shoot. Why the heck wouldn't you jjust let that guy in the choke point get shot up by the enemy and maybe do some damage to him before he dies? He makes them use up their ammo, increase their heat values and , maybe, make them take some damage.

"I'm gunna shoot you cause you are in my way and I'm a better player then you and i want the killz" <--- raw shortsighted stupidity.

It's as simple as this
I don't care about my score. I care about overall results.
One guy blocking the shots of 4 to 11 other mechs, is going to slow down the time to kill dramatically if no one makes him move out of the way. In the time it takes mr stand in the choke point to politely exchange gunfire with his target and most likely die horribly, the Enemy can move into superior positions and flank around us, or reinforce the guy that should have been getting a face full of 12 mechs blasting down onto him with alphas. Let's use Terra Therma for example. Team Derp member, moves up to the single mech to two mech opening from the donut. Enemy mech begins advancing down the ramp, Team Derp member does not move out of the way, and continues to close blocking the fire lane for the entire team.

Who do you think is going to kill that lone enemy mech or lone PAIR of mechs faster? 1 guy who has to get within 100 meters to fire on his target successfully, against one or two enemy mechs, or 11 other mechs blasting into one of 2 potential targets?

Maybe you should think about potential volume of fire, before facehugging the enemy more?
The only way you could think this is stupid, is if you're one of the people that I'm likely to just light up like a christmas tree for your stupidity.

Edited by Mavairo, 18 July 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Bobzilla]

WarHippy, on 18 July 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

You put way too much of the onus on the shooter for their situational awareness, and very little on the one getting shot. So I would have to adamantly disagree with you that it is avoidable at anywhere near the ratio you are indicating. You can't punish someone in this setting for something out of their control and expect people to be ok with it.

But the onus should be on the the shooter, always. And as previous people have said 'i just keep shooting because they chose to get in the way'.

There are times when you have to cross a friendlies LOS, for example leaving the start point on HPG. Should a player sit there the whole game because a player got there first and is blocking the way and choosing not to move or be the sole person to suffer from having to cross his line of fire. No, the onus is on the person shooting to be aware of such things. I rarely FF unexpectedly, tho I do take risks and sometimes FF, because why not? This is a choice, a choice that leads to FF much much more often than the, I pulled the trigger then someone walked into the shot after.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

nehebkau, on 18 July 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Wow, that is the stupidest mentality. Sometimes knowing when to NOT shoot is as important when to shoot. Why the heck wouldn't you jjust let that guy in the choke point get shot up by the enemy and maybe do some damage to him before he dies? He makes them use up their ammo, increase their heat values and , maybe, make them take some damage.

And there are a LOT of choke points on the various maps...really too many for 12 mechs to be trying to fire at the same time. If someone can't wait for the choke point to clear...initiate a flank!

[topgun505]

It's real simple.

Situational awareness. GET SOME.

If you see someone attacking a target DON'T WALK IN FRONT OF THEM.

Have enough brain matter to establish a firing line.

On the same token don't stop your mech at a choke point thus blocking all your teammates from moving forward.

Similarly, if you see move someone move forward to peek around a corner DO NOT ADVANCE BEHIND THEM. This prevents them from backing up into cover and will likely get them cored or killed.

It astounds me to no end the amount of stupidity and lack of common sense on the part of the pugs I've seen.

Edited by topgun505, 18 July 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Archon]

One of the main reasons friendly fire has increased is because clan weapons are DOT; this means that streams of laser and AC fire are going to be in process longer than they are for IS weapons, which means that it's easier being on the same team to run into those streams of fire.