16 replies to this topic

[BigFatGator]

What's the current consensus on IS heavies in relation to each other? Jager/ 'phract still the top two?

Edit to clarify IS= Innersphere... we all know TW is the top heavy overall.
Looking to hear current ranking of Quickdraw, Dragon, Thunderbolt, Orion, Catapult, Jager, Cataphract

Edited by BigFatGator, 20 July 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Timberwolf, Cataphract, Jager for top three.

While clans don't win other weight classes, the Timberwolf is beastly.

[Grey Black]

Wintersdark, on 20 July 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

Timberwolf, Cataphract, Jager for top three.

While clans don't win other weight classes, the Timberwolf is beastly.

Define "Win." Clan mechs are different, and as such are beastly in their own ways. The Nova and Stormcrow are easily top tier mediums, for example, but aren't, for example, the Shadow Hawk due merely to tech differences.

However, if I were to rank the current Heavy Mech meta, the Timber Wolf is definitely the top, due to the Timber Wolf S existence. The Timber Wolf simply outclasses all other mechs, period.

Secondly, the Cataphract would definitely be the second by quite a distance, followed by the Jagermech.

[Wintersdark]

By win, I mean clearly lead their weight class.

Lights? Don't make me laugh. The Lit Fox is useful, yes, but decidedly not class leading.

Mediums? The Nova is a wild ride, but it is not a top tier chassis. It's handicapped by being only 50 tons and having 5 tons locked up in jump jets that don't provide worlds of utility (JJ's are extremely important, but 5 is wasted on the Nova). Also, very wide, low slung arms hurt it. The Stormcrow would be best in class with JJ's, but lacking them leaves it not just different, but second fiddle to Shadowhawks. It absolutely is a great mech though, and in the running.

Assaults... The Dire Wolf has a lot of fear factor, but it's limitations keep it from being best in class. Even after what seems like an endless succession of nerfs, the Victor is still king of the Assaults, with the other substantial competition. The Warhawk isn't even close.

[Konril]

This is just what I see, so I'm not sure if it matches the consensus.

In spite being nerfed a couple of times somewhat recently, the best weapons the Inner Sphere has are the autocannons, especially the AC/5, Ultra AC/5, Gauss rifle, and the AC/20. The combination of very low heat, and high rate of fire (or just plain up-front damage with the AC/20 or Gauss), make these weapons ton-for-ton the best DPS weapons you can get. But in most cases, the sheer weight and size of the weapons combined with the limited number and awkard placement of hard points force people to "diversify" with energy weapons or missiles due to a lack of available space.

The Jagermechs and some of the Cataphracts are the only inner sphere mechs without this particular issue. 4 AC/5, 3 Ultra AC/5, 2 AC/20 and 2 Gauss rifle loadouts are only possible with these mechs and the Catapult-K2 (in the case of 2 Gauss or 2 AC/20). So they are still the deadliest mechs the Inner Sphere has, although the gap between these and other mechs has shrunk a lot.

The Orion I would describe as something of a mini-Atlas with the way the hard points are laid out. There isn't anything particularly wrong with it. However the Cataphract and Victor (in the Assault category) are both similar in weight, and more interesting with either the option for more jump jets or better autocannon mounts. If you're looking for a good missile boat in the heavy category, the Orion does have the tube count to make it work. But it's just an uninteresting chassis for most people.

I have briefly mentioned the Catapult-K2 above. But I must say the rest of the Catapults are somewhat specialized in missile-boating. They do well with either mass LRMs or mass SRMs. However, they also have trouble with an over-sized center torso and a badly placed cockpit. So it's kind of hard to survive taking damage in one compared to the Jagermech. But the jump jets do help.

A free TDR-9S Thunderbolt was handed out a some time ago from one of the challenge rewards. The best thing I was able to do with it was to mount a combination of 2 AC/5s, 1 PPC, and a NARC. Even with all the energy mounts available, I just wasn't able to get a mass medium laser setup to really work for me. So I wasn't really impressed enough to buy the two more needed for elite or mastery (especially as I already had the Jagermechs at the time).

Personally, I feel the Dragons and Quickdraws to be lemon mechs. The Dragon has a particularly bad issue with an over-exposed center torso. Also, with the difference in engine weight and jump-jet weight needed to move these mechs around, the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, and Wolverine actually perform better on the field with a trivial sacrifice in available weight and armor, in spite (or maybe because of) crossing the line into the medium category.

I think that should about cover it.

[JC Daxion]

I have been running T-bolts, and Catapults as of late.. while the T-bolts i would not call class leading, they are lots of fun but you really need to think outside the box on these mechs.

But since the LRM and SRM fixes the range of builds with catapults is impressive. the Laser boat jester, and the Laser+ballistics K2 are pretty great. But to me the C1 is the leader of the pack at this point. But even the 6 laucher A1 Or the C4 with a pair of LRM15's+6's, with a back up ML+tag.. they all do pretty darn well.

Granted i do not play competitive team play, so my views are slanted towards pugs but still, i think Cat's have gotten some pretty good buffs with LRM buffs, and the SRM fixes

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 August 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[Elyam]

I have recently given the Orion a chance, and really wanted it to work out, but I'm not nearly as effective in it as I am with the Cataphract 2X, which I think will remain my heavy of choice until an acceptable Marauder redesign (that gets around the Macross license fiasco) is one day produced (which I suspect will occur at some point as a sort of 1-step further out Phoenix add-on based on one of the existing 'far enough away from the license' models people have developed; it and the Warhammer...they are too popular and iconic to BT to ignore). Outside of my personal preference though, the CTF-4X and all Jagers are probably the actual most effective models. Even besides the 2-heavy-AC standard that most people will use, a JM6 in Rifleman emulaton (2 LLAS, 2 MLAS, 2 AC/5) is monster in this class.

Edited by Elyam, 15 August 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Modo44]

You could make an argument for the Summoner over IS heavies purely because of Clan tech. The 3D builds it can run, it runs with major upgrades. UAC20+4xERML with more JJs and speed easily trumps plain old AC20+4xML.

Edited by Modo44, 15 August 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Modo44, on 15 August 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

You could make an argument for the Summoner over IS heavies purely because of Clan tech. The 3D builds it can run, it runs with major upgrades. UAC20+4xERML with more JJs and speed easily trumps plain old AC20+4xML.

Who runs AC20+4ML, though? Particularly at 70t? My Jag runs AC40+4ML, and I'll take the loss of now much weaker jumpjets to push 60 damage at a time, without having to deal with duration on a single UAC20 spreading damage around. Hell, a AC20+4ML build is what I'd expect out of a Medium, not a heavy. I've a Shadowhawk running that right now.

ERML's are better than ML's, no doubt, but not nearly so much to make up for AC40 vs. UAC20.

Summoners are reasonably tanky due to the Clan XL, but otherwise far behind the better IS Heavies.

[Escef]

Wintersdark, on 20 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The Nova is a wild ride, but it is not a top tier chassis. It's handicapped by being only 50 tons and having 5 tons locked up in jump jets that don't provide worlds of utility (JJ's are extremely important, but 5 is wasted on the Nova). Also, very wide, low slung arms hurt it.

2.5 tons in jump jets. What handicaps the Nova is mostly the low slung arms, lack of tonnage conserving endo steel, and a large number of fixed heat sinks. Still, the stock Nova Prime is incredibly dangerous in the right hands.

Wintersdark, on 20 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The Stormcrow would be best in class with JJ's, but lacking them leaves it not just different, but second fiddle to Shadowhawks. It absolutely is a great mech though, and in the running.

The thing to keep in mind here is that the Shadowhawk is a true medium, but Clan weapons allow the Stormcrow to be a pocket heavy with more speed than it has any right to have. They are just so different that I don't think it's fair to either mech to compare them directly.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

The gauss+ppc meta belonged to IS assaults and heavies,mainly the Cataphract 3D and Victors,since Timbertarts run so silly hot that steady dps is hard to do even with full cool shot inventory.

The current shift seems to be the laser puke clan mechs,and they are nasty as hell, 2LPL 4-5 medium lasers is the ftw.

As for the so called "lemon" mechs,Quickie and Dragon,they still work nicely as skirmishers,and Quickie actually now is somewhat viable brawler since clans hit the shelves,remember to use STD engine and full armor tho.
I still sometimes use 1C dragon,4G and 5K quickdraws,i like them.

[Tesunie]

Best heavy honestly depends on who is driving it. I'm down right deadly in my Dragon, and rather good in my Quickdraw. I do decent in my Jagermech, but feel my performance is better in my Dragon on average. Never really touched the Cataphract. Only other heavy I own is the thunderbolt, which I feel I do well in.

Sometimes, it's not the mech your using, it's how you use the mech.

[Dibster]

Based on damage numbers alone, I consistently do best in laserboating builds. So anything with 5-6 lasers with loads of heatsinks and possibly some ballistics thrown in if weight allows after the lasers. In my hands the most damaging IS mechs in each weight class are the Cicada 2A 6xML for mediums, Firestarter K 6xML for light mechs, Banshee 3E 4xAC2 4xML for assault class and Cataphract 1X 5xML 1xAC20 for heavies. The Timber Wolf is far and away the best mech in any weight class though. It just offers consistently high damage done even in lost matches. I struggle to perform that well even in a cheesy 6xC-UAC5 Dire Wolf.

[Nightmare1]

Based on observations, I would say that the 'Pults, 'Phracts, Jagers, and Orions are the top Heavies. While a lot of people dislike the Orions, they're effectiveness in the hands of a capable pilot is undeniable. Those four Mechs represent the most frightening for IS Heavies, with 'Phracts ranking at the number one spot for me.

As for QKDs and TDRs, they are a lot of fun to pilot. I took my TDR-5S and 9S and equipped dual AC/5's on them. The 5S backs this up with twin Streak 2s and four MLs, while the 9S packs six MLs. They're great Mechs and a lot of fun, if not particularly competitive. I have good builds on my other two TDRs as well, but the 5S and 9S are my favorites.

For QKDs, I made my 5K into a jump sniper with twin PPCs and MLs. The PPC nerf really messed with this Mech, and it's now something of a annoyance - I will probably sell it soon. The other two QKDs I own (I don't have the Hero) are built around SRMs. The 4G has Artemis SRMs and MPLs, while my 4H has triple SRM 6s, MPLs, and SPLs. Both are great brawlers, although the JJ nerf hurt them a bit.

I figure the TDR and QKD need some love, thus the dissertation on them.

[Spheroid]

I would say Phract > Jager > Orion > Thud > Quickdraw > Cat > Dragon.

[timff8]

I'm not an experienced player but I'm going to go with Jager and Cataphract as the best, followed by Catapult and Orion as second best, assuming the Orion has a good pilot. The Dragon and Quickdraw I don't really like, and the Thunder is sort of an inferior mix of Catapult and Cataphract.

[Just wanna play]

Spheroid, on 19 August 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I would say Phract > Jager > Orion > Thud > Quickdraw > Cat > Dragon.

i say move around cat dragon and quick draw, cat is great lrm support mech, quickie is MEH, dragon is sweet, and wtf is a thud? if thunder bolt, yeah it s pretty meh, its the design of a frontliner with the weight of a fire support mech, no bueno

Edited by Just wanna play, 12 September 2014 - 02:53 PM.