65 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Ok, I also tried out my spiders and they are still able to do their usual thing in River City. If the spiders were affected, then I'm not too worried.

[MischiefSC]

Again, on JJs -

1 JJ should get you waist height on a Cent.

2 JJs should get you Cent height off the ground.

3 JJs should get you 1 1/2 Cent height off the ground.

4 JJs should get you 2 Cents height off the ground.

It was based off the concept of height levels. 1/2 a mechs height was a single story home. It's L1 - it provides cover for a mech from the waist down. You could kick one to destroy it. You could jump on top of it - if you didn't mind decent odds of flattening it and falling on your backside. L2 was full cover for a mech, but not indirect cover. L3 and above was enough to block LoS and most sorts of indirect fire from the associated direction. Each JJ lifted you 1 height level. Average height for mechs was often based around the Centurion; pretty much the baseline 50 ton mech. It's a good example of 'average height'.

It doesn't matter the size of the mech for JJs though; - that's why a Griffin spends 2 tons to get 4 JJs and a Highlander spends 2 tons to get 1 JJ. The Highlander is paying for the greater thrust/jet via the weight.

I would say that you need a big enough engine to hit the TT equiv of 3/5/3 to mount 3 JJs, 4/6/4 to mount 4, etc. The idea being that the JJs are venting thrust from your engine, that's why you don't run out of fuel.

In the current model, 1 JJ gets me a Cents height off the ground. 2 JJs gets me 1.25 Cents height off the ground. 3 JJs gets me 1.5 Cents height off the ground, etc.

The result? 1 Cents height is generally as high as I need to get in 1 jump. Spending an significantly bigger chunk of tonnage for a correspondingly reduced amount of lift is silly and pointless.

Also, they're too slow. Fire it, get a kick in the backside. Fast up, fast down. Magic anti-gravity lifting apparatus super Feather Fall giant mech edition...

Meh. Meh I say! Meh on all of it.

[Fooooo]

Haven't tried out the new JJ's yet...but.........ahahahahhahahahahaha

Has it really just gone back to how it was.....BEFORE they buffed JJ's where 1 was all you needed or was useful ?

Ahahahahahhahahah..............


I dont see why they cant increase burn time for heavier mechs, well some of them, but keep the thrust low. (dont do this to lighter mechs or mechs that in lore are supposed to be agile with JJ's.)


Basically each JJ could just add more fuel. (has to be enough to be worth it ffs) If speed of climb is still an issue but you want to let people quickly "hop" over small things, then SCALE the thrust via the height of the mech.


IE mech at 0m (feet on ground) gets 100% thrust. (which would be adjusted for each mech with JJ's so it can hop over things somewhat, not some blanket case encompassing them all which nerfs some and buffs others etc etc)


Once you hit whatever height PGI deems should be the slowdown height, you cut the thrust to where it will JUST make the mech rise slowly......

The more JJ's you stack the longer you can ride the lower thrust and gain more height......... possibly give more thrust the faster your fallspeed is also, so you can still save fuel for landing without having to burn for the whole drop to avoid your legs falling off etc


That or just make them like MW:LL already ??

Edited by Fooooo, 21 July 2014 - 12:56 AM.

[Rex Budman]

Signal27, on 20 July 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

It's an 80 ton mech. The dev's goal was to give a good smack to jump-jet capable assaults. Lighter mechs weren't hit as hard - I can still get my lights, mediums, and heavies up on short ledges (like in River City) with only 1 jump jet.

If that's the case then your mech must be barely making it up to those platforms.

I tested my FS9-K after reading your post - mate, they've bit hit pretty hard too...

[Khobai]

Jumpjet thrust should be linear and based on the max number of jumpjets the mech is capable of equipping.

For example if a Victor can have 5 jumpjets, and you only have 2 jumpjets equipped you should only get 2/5 or 40% of your max thrust.

Max thrust would be a derived formula based on the max jumpjets a mech can have and the weight class of the mech.

[Rashhaverak]

For the life of me I don't get why balancing JJs is so hard. Take the mech and figure out the height you want it to jump at maximum load out, then set the jump jet thrust to reach that height. Any less jump jets results in a percentage below the max. That's it. It's not magic, rocket science complicated math. If you want the Highlander to jump 60 meters high with four jump jets, then set it that way, and each jump jet is worth 15 meters of height, period. Sure, it's a little hard to have to set each mech, vice just a blanket setting for all jump jets, but wouldn't it be better than having to tweak jump jets a dozen times, trying to find the sweat spot that fits every random build universally? Set heat the similar way and then be done with it. The best part of doing it this way would be that you can set build design characteristics such that mechs, like the Highlander, that are known for DFA can actually do what they are known for.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 20 July 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

What they need to do is make it so that JJ's actually increase thrust exponentially, the more you have.
So that if you invest in many JJ's, you actually get a massive boost.

As it stands, you get the most bang for your buck from one JJ, and taking more is kind of a waste since it doesn't increase your jumping ability much.

They tried to nerf jumpsniping, but the fix they put in was backwards.

every attempt they have put in has been abject, convoluted, failures.

Extend reticle shake .5 seconds after thrust is cut. Problem fixed. With an existing mechanic. But nope, lets go ruin something else, peripherally related instead, and force people even more into the Poptart Meta.

I'm convinced one of the comp teams has some incriminating photos of Paul and he is intentionally trying to turn this into PogoStickWarrior Online.

[EGG]

I've been playing non-JJ mechs since the patch, so I thought I'd try out my Heavy Metal and JR7-D in the testing grounds.

As it sounded bad, I was going to pull the 4 JJ's off the Highlander and spend the 8 tonnes on engine/DHS. But it can still peekaboo over medium sized hills 1.5x it's height, so I might leave them there.

However the Jenner is screwed. I'm probably going to take it down to 1 JJ and spend that weight on something else.

[ShinVector]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

a single JJ means you can still pop tart, exploit-hop up hills, and prevent fall damage. More than one is pointless.

I have to say no... Need a certain amount of thrust to prevent high damage on very tall drops..
Or maybe I need to try see whether I can slide down with JJs.

[Violator]

The whole thing reminds me of something a crazy person once said.

"Drivers dont use their mirrors, so we're going to put the steering wheel at the back facing the rear,so that they are always watching who's coming behind them...and we will put cameras on the front so that they can see were they're going on a display."

The whole thing is pointless and makes things even worse because again you're not watching the rear because you're trying to see were you're going.

PGIs logic is quite similar.....maybe they should visit a mental institution from time to time, they're going to like the "ideas" of some patients. Maybe they can become patients themselves...

[Zolaz]

Well, maybe they will fix JJs in a year or so.

[Ngamok]

Good news everybody.

My 5 hardwired JJs on my Nova and Summoner work ok.

[3rdworld]

The lift speed is much better now imo. It makes poptart vs land locked a more interesting fight than before. That being said the jump heights are way too low.

I don't really know if this is the best solution for JJs, but I am glad we have seen a semi shake up in the meta with the registering SRMs, and the nerfed JJs.

[WarHippy]

I can get from the floor to just barely on top of the canyon wall in canyon network, however it takes what feels like an hour to get there. My desire to play that mech or any mech with JJs that I used for brawling is very very low right now. They need to scrap the JJs as they are and rethink them entirely.

[CeeKay Boques]

WarHippy, on 22 July 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

I can get from the floor to just barely on top of the canyon wall in canyon network, however it takes what feels like an hour to get there. My desire to play that mech or any mech with JJs that I used for brawling is very very low right now. They need to scrap the JJs as they are and rethink them entirely.

Jump jets are tools.
They are also fun.

PGI, please find that balance. Stop crushing fun because JJ are so useful.

[CygnusX7]

I wonder if JJ's had a lot of thrust but caused you to go forward by a significant amount.
Poptarting might be harder when your mech goes forward and into whatever is in front of you rather than up.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

CygnusX7, on 22 July 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

I wonder if JJ's had a lot of thrust but caused you to go forward by a significant amount.
Poptarting might be harder when your mech goes forward and into whatever is in front of you rather than up.

That would not have much impact as you can just jump perpendicular to the direction you fire. That is what they were doing already because it makes you more difficult to hit.

[Kitane]

I've tried Thunderbolt with max number of JJs (4), which should be comparable to JJ options on Catapult, another of my favorite heavies.

I doubt it was worth for anything more than jumping over car sized obstacles, small stones and for feathering falls.

[CygnusX7]

Rouken, on 22 July 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

That would not have much impact as you can just jump perpendicular to the direction you fire. That is what they were doing already because it makes you more difficult to hit.

Makes sense but I'm thinking a lot more forward thrust.

[Clydewinder]

Zolaz, on 22 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Well, maybe they will fix JJs in a year or so.

When a new "cash purchase" mech comes out with jumpjets on it, they will be superpowered again.