29 replies to this topic

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Why are the warhawk's quirks and fixed slots so oppressive compared to other clan mechs? The LT has no hardpoints or open slots in any variant. it also has the most fixed slot Also instead of taking the superior in every way endo-steel, the already slot starved warhawk was given ferro-fib. Yes yes, that's because of the TT loadouts choosing ferro fib because unlike in MWO ferro fib has a cost benefit over endo-steel and thus had a reason to just be flat-out worse than end-steel. Obviously other mechs don't have the optimal upgrades so it's not that surprising. However what is the most ridiculous is the +15% cooldown to energy weapons from adding ONE energy hardpoint to the RA. That is insane. The nova gets +5% energy cooldown (and 7.5% slower arm movement, which isn't that noticable in my experience) for THREE additional arm hardpoints. The other assault (Direwolf) gets a ballistic and an energy for +2.5% energy cooldown only. Yes yes, both of those already have a large amount of hardpoints but it still doesn't seem proportional.

I can still do well with the warhawk but I can't help but feel like a lot of potential was forced out unnecessarily by having 10 additional fixed DHS (10 tons, with 7 outside the engine giving 14 slots + the 7 from ferro fib totaling 21 fixed slots if i'm not mistaken). It like other clan mechs has lower hung weapons making it not effective for hilly maps and vulnerable to pop tarting.

[FupDup]

Yeah, PGI had a pretty amazing opportunity for Omnipod quirks but they totally botched it. They could have, for example, given the Thor much better agility than the Mad Cat to help it be useful, or give the Badder some weapon quirks to make it much more powerful than the Cute Fox (which gets ECM and jets), or give various boosts to the Peacedove, or any other number of cool things. But, nope.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 20 July 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

Yeah, PGI had a pretty amazing opportunity for Omnipod quirks but they totally botched it. They could have, for example, given the Thor much better agility than the Mad Cat to help it be useful, or give the Badder some weapon quirks to make it much more powerful than the Cute Fox (which gets ECM and jets), or give various boosts to the Peacedove, or any other number of cool things. But, nope.

What is the Peacedove?

The Thor is actually more durable than the Madcat... if you could believe that. I think it shares some of the same benefits of the Thunderbolt (durable, but also meh on the loadout side of things).

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 20 July 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

What is the Peacedove?

The Thor is actually more durable than the Madcat... if you could believe that. I think it shares some of the same benefits of the Thunderbolt (durable, but also meh on the loadout side of things).

Peace -> Opposite of war

Dove -> Sorta the opposite of hawk

Peacedove -> Opposite of Warhawk



Also, I haven't driven the Mad Cat yet, but the Thor has some leg issues at times...

[Tw1stedMonkey]

FupDup, on 20 July 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

Yeah, PGI had a pretty amazing opportunity for Omnipod quirks but they totally botched it. They could have, for example, given the Thor much better agility than the Mad Cat to help it be useful, or give the Badder some weapon quirks to make it much more powerful than the Cute Fox (which gets ECM and jets), or give various boosts to the Peacedove, or any other number of cool things. But, nope.

I agree with that as well, they feel really unimaginative and kinda tacked on. They should have some interesting things on the pods with like 1 hardpoint instead of 2 or 3 so like if you have this 1 energy hardpoint over the 2 one you get to have this hardpointignored for the PPC heat penalty or something.

[Vassago Rain]

It was the peacebird's destiny to mirror the inner sphere awesome.

[FupDup]

Vassago Rain, on 20 July 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

It was the peacebird's destiny to mirror the inner sphere awesome.

Well, I wouldn't call the Peacedove that bad...it's got issues, but I don't think it's AWS tier...

[CHH Badkarma]

This largest thing to hamper the effectiveness of the Warhawk is ghost heat. Much like the poor awesome. It is a real shame the pgi has hurt these mechs in there stock "cannon" configs. Damn shame

[Tw1stedMonkey]

FupDup, on 20 July 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't call the Peacedove that bad...it's got issues, but I don't think it's AWS tier...

As a pilot with 3 mastered awesomes, i can confirm this. I haven't touched my awesomes since the stalker came out. better in every way.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 20 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Peace -> Opposite of war

Dove -> Sorta the opposite of hawk

Peacedove -> Opposite of Warhawk

For a moment there, I thought it was a reference to the Blackhawk or Stormcrow...

Quote

Also, I haven't driven the Mad Cat yet, but the Thor has some leg issues at times...

Well, that might have to do with the fact that the Thunderbolt did have large legs... but noone really legs them. Thors have JJs... so... you know what comes from that.

[Corwin Vickers]

In the board game and in the MUSE the Warhawk P was a beast. Here, everything that made it good has been nerfed because of pinpoint convergence being too good.

[Khobai]

Warhawks make half-decent LRM boats. Thats literally all theyre good for. If you try playing them in any other capacity theyre worse than Mad Cats and Daishis respectively.

About the only thing I can think of that would help the Warhawk significantly is adding the Warhawk-C right torso as a purchaseable omnipod. That would give the Warhawk two additional missile hardpoints bringing the max total upto 6. That would make the Warhawk mostly a missile/energy based mech like the Stalker, but at least it would have a role.

Additionally it needs the quirks which reduce its rate of fire removed. Instead it should get a quirk which reduces the heat generated by CERPPCs, Clan ERLLs, and Clan LPLs.

Edited by Khobai, 21 July 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 July 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't call the Peacedove that bad...it's got issues, but I don't think it's AWS tier...

this is Vass speaking..... you know the dude can't comment without extreme hyperbole, lol.

[Widowmaker1981]

yeah, warhawks are terribad. buff them

(its the 592 average damage / match im talking about, the KDR isnt all that great due to quite a lot of losses)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 July 2014 - 04:21 AM.

[Oogalook]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 20 July 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Why are the warhawk's quirks and fixed slots so oppressive compared to other clan mechs? The LT has no hardpoints or open slots in any variant.
...
I can still do well with the warhawk but I can't help but feel like a lot of potential was forced out unnecessarily by having 10 additional fixed DHS (10 tons, with 7 outside the engine giving 14 slots + the 7 from ferro fib totaling 21 fixed slots if i'm not mistaken). It like other clan mechs has lower hung weapons making it not effective for hilly maps and vulnerable to pop tarting.

I can't believe that somebody's complaining about the microscopic disadvantages of any of the disgusting new Clan cheesewagons. The nerve, the simple entitlement-minded gall of it turns my stomach.

[Shredhead]

This thing can pack more punch than an Atlas at 71 km/h, but yeah what a terrible mech.

[Dirgez]

I have seen a lot of terribad builds for the WHK. I think most people want to try to fit the mech into the player's playstyle/role when it should be the opposite. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, the Peacedove does have better speed than the Dire Whale. That would be a big deal, if it wasn't for the fact that current maps and game modes don't really punish slow mechs as much as they should.

I agree that the Warhawk needs some better quirks and I do think the excessive heat sinks are unnecessary. The Warhawk is also a prime example of why I hate the hardpoint system. There is no reason on God's green earth why a clan assault mech should only have 1 ballistic hardpoint per arm, while having neither energy hardpoints or ballistic hardpoints in the torso. It's just a failed attempt to make the mech interesting via hardpoints. In practice, it just limits the mech to a small handful of useful builds, for no reason what so ever.

I would like to see the Warhawk with some different hardpoints and less heatsinks. Neither will ever happen. I have my doubts it will ever be buffed, really. But that's ok, because I'm doing fine with it already. I've been a hardcore AWS-8Q fan since 2012. Compared to that, the Warhawk is basically Mecha-Streisand.

[PharmEcis]

I've got no problem doing 1000+ damage in a Warhawk rather consistently. It's not the exception for me, rather it's almost the norm. So I don't know what you guys are bitching about.

[Gyrok]

I was going to say...Brawler Warhawk with 4 CSRM6 + 3x MPL + 2xLPL is nasty...(Yes, I know pulses are sub optimal but I had LOTS of tonnage left over with no slots to fill...)

Edited by Gyrok, 21 July 2014 - 08:42 AM.