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>>>"It is a punishment"
Again, no it is not. No amount of semantic games of victimhood is going to change that. If we're going to play word games, let's call it a "stupid tax" because it taxes stupid play. I find that harsh, a mislabeling of the situation, but this is in the spirit of playing word games.
>>>"I don't care."
Actually, you care quite a bit or you wouldn't have responded to this threat to easy cbills and consequence free bad play.
>>>"New players can't make that statement, can't effectively compete with inferior equipment, don't get to choose their circumstance, and wouldn't be able to afford the equipment to make better build choices"
No veterans choose their circumstances either. They build them or react to them. All new players become veterans unless they quit. This is not a disincentive to play. It is a consequence of gameplay. Also, look at how Sandpit advocating protecting new players, easing them into the CW R&R environment. I suspect very few detractors from his position have read it, or the other posts supporting it.
>>>"I'll just buy more mechs and mech bays to circumvent the timers."
Good idea. PGI and their bank accounts will thank you for your support. Proves my point this doesn't damage the F2P concept, and moves more to Pay 4 Impatience, or Pay 4 Convenience business models.
>>>"It doesn't make PPC/Gauss/AC combos any less effective in combat"
Nope, but makes the more expensive to replace, repair, buy and own by pricing them appropriately. This is called a 'market force' able to be learned in any high school economics class. It will limit it's use on the field if suddenly a Gauss costs as much as an XL engine, that's for sure. Makes it very tasty to salvage whole too. I also never said this would change their functionality in the battlefield, only the number of them out there would be reduced.
>>>"As I pointed out further in my post, the costs of getting started with the game past trial mechs was so bad for new players that PGI implemented the cadet bonus just to give starting players a leg up on getting to customization and the real "fun" of MW:O. Your changes make the new player experience even worse which I will vehemently oppose."
Never saw anyone advocate getting rid of the cadet bonus. in fact, I've seen it hinted at EXPANDING or INCREASING it.
>>>"Even scaling the costs based on mech build doesn't matter. I don't care how much it costs for R&R, up to the point I just stop playing entirely because it becomes stupidly expensive to play due to bad R&R mechanics getting in the way of the game."
Okay. :::shrugs::: We do have the idea of 'arena' mode which would be just the same as old fashioned play we have now... just with lower payouts and longer grind since you're not really risking anything. So... there's that. In lieu of quitting.
>>>"How about we keep the R&R concept scrapped"
That's up to PGI, but my opinion is solidly 'no'. It's a 'bleep no!' for no R&R in CW.
>>>"Make balanced BattleTech tabletop type builds the best builds to take into combat and that's what you'll see in the game."
Because it's been shown time and time again, all the way back TO playing TT that the stock builds are not always best and should never artificially be made so. Ever.
Talk about killing one of the greatest benefits of this game: customization.
Yes, charging a new player 250k when you earn maybe 75k-100k for a bad match would be a big deal. You would drive all new player traffic away when they can't pilot the shiny new mech they just purchased with their cadet bonus because they are still learning the game and have consistently bad performance because they are still learning.
Then they should join a Faction/Clan/Merc unit that will pay their costs, OR stick to the Solaris VII arena and accept the lower payouts as standard till they feel they want to risk CW. Again, nobody's advocating getting rid of the Cadet bonus or reducing it.
>>>"Sure, you can throw in real money to get past the "pay wall" quicker, although if you want a good case study in what this looks like for new players, go look at the backlash over EA's Dungeon Keeper for mobile and the dig speed rates."
Never heard of that game or 'dig speed' issues. What you're talking about is P2W I suspect, and I'm against that. Real money should not give ingame performance bonuses beyond purchasing. And if people abuse the system, well, sorry to say this but PGI will have to choose either greed or balance for a dynamic economy, flooded with currency will suffer the effects of inflation. Of course, if the contracts are negotiable, then the contract payout would rise too like all other costs. Again, this is Economics 101.
>>>"This is why I said you would have to prop up R&R with a percentage of free repairs to prevent players from going in the hole with a bad match and a "worst case scenario" of zero net gain after repairs if you truly had a dismal match performance."
You're ignoring the points made about having Factions/Clans/Mercs pay R&R costs as part of the contract. It's those who choose to lone wolf it who are going to have to foot their own bill like a trucker being an Owner Operator. Yes you get the freedom and higher pay, only the cost is responsibility. Sci Fi example? Firefly. Mal had to keep working harder and harder to stay free and ultimately, he was doomed because of the choices he made and would have had to knuckle under or find a way to become master of his own destiny.
>>>"For me, I'd still continue to run LRM boats and pin point damage meta builds because I can afford to do so. Again, what's the point of R&R when it doesn't stop the min-max builds and just burdens the new and unskilled player?"
Just like in the real world, success breeds copycats. The prices to be and maintain being a copycat rises and becomes harder and harder till people start dropping out because it is too hard or they find a more profitable way. SOmeone discovers the next awesome meta build. Prices on all things attached to it rise as demand goes up. Maintenance costs (something nobody's been paying attention to) go up too. This will decrease the amount of these monsters seen on the field slowly but surely the same way as making JJ less effective and more damaging landings are changing the meta now too.
>>>"No problem, myself and any other "whales" still playing MW:O at that point will circumvent your economy (If it is even required) and use real money transactions to purchase any weapons/equipment/ammo replacements we need regardless of the C-Bill price."
So you'd deliberately try to destroy the game out of spite because it's not consequence free? Hmmmmmm. I dunno. Sounds an awful lot like the Goons before they got banned. Also, go ahead and use real money. PGI will thank you for it, it proves my point that a dynamic economy is a good thing for PGI's finances, they can expand and do more stuff for us. Inflation hits, costs rise, contract payouts rise, the system equalizes over time. Again, Econ 101.
>>>"high skilled players and/or the ones with fat wallets with the top end equipment will eventually drive up the price high enough that you would damn near have to pay real money to get competitive mechs onto the field. If you limit the numbers available, the top end players buy up all the available stock, leaving nothing left for anyone else."
No, I've met more than a few noobs with thousands of dollars to spend on this game on a yearly basis who aren't good but are having fun. As has been pointed out, MC buys Cbills, ergo even new players can have the best toys. I'm sorry, but this undermines your argument. Also, inflation happens and deals with all the MC/CBill conversions along the supply and scarcity lines. Any pain is short term and temporary, because I doubt people will keep doing this out of spite either.
In any case, I do not see any evidence that a dynamic economy coupled with R&R and Salvage for a portion of the MWO universe will be harmful to new players. It will create a more full experience by introducing a life outside the cockpit which most players I know, want. We're bored with Mechlab - Drop - Mechlab - Drop - Skill tree - Mechlab - drop.
We want more, and CW is it but that means consequences. Big scary consequences for making bad decisions, or go hide in the gladiatorial arena.
