47 replies to this topic

[Lorgarn]

I get sniped a real lot. Since the clan Lasers are in the game it is getting worse. Enemies are so incredably far away that the dont even render on termal vision and are at best 40 to 60 pixel high on normal vision, still they manage to precisely remove my center torso at that distance.

I cant not return fire. I simply cant! I have no weapon which can cover that distance, and I have utterly no idea how it can be possible in this game to shoot that precice on a target which can be barely seen at best.

I feel like being in a contest with other people in the same room, to build an actual, flying aeroplane, while I can only manage to fold a paper plane.

How can I defend against that?

Regards
Lorgarn

[The Great Unwashed]

Note that you cannot see anything using night vision or thermals beyond a certain range (more than your weapons range) so you cannot rely on that. I snipe using my advanced zoom in normal vision and with low mouse sensitivity and then it's not so difficult to get a good shot. You can see targets in the dark quite well (not so much in snow storms).

The most important thing to remember is that once you get hit you need to move. You can try to find the enemy who has targetted you, but chances are you get a second volley before you see him. Torso twist and retreat and do not let him hit you again. You cannot cover the distance so you need to use terrain; either to close the distance or to hide! If you are fighting a good sniper he will not be in the same position and he'll play hide & peek.

Getting a BAP + the extended radar range module can work wonders (except when the enemy uses ECM). The module has little weight but the BAP can add qite a weight penalty on some mechs. On the other hand, for some mechs you really need it.

So, not really much of a defence, more like coping tactics.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 28 July 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Bilbo]

They are using zoom and most likely advanced zoom. The only solution to your problem is to stay in cover and close.

[DONTOR]

utilize cover better, lasers at range are incredibly easy to roll onto multiple components (torso twist more). If you want to hit them back in a serious way use duall gauss.

[Modo44]

Learn the maps, learn to twist and not run in straight lines when in the open. Most places can be approached relatively safely, even on Alpine.

For a direct counter, bring ERPPCs, Gauss, ERLLs yourself.

Heat vision is helpful on Caustic Valley. You get clear black spots to shoot at.

Normal vision while playing in a dark room with an increased gamma value is helpful on River ****** Night. You can see almost as if with daylight, and there is no fog.

[Kjudoon]

Lorgarn, on 28 July 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

I get sniped a real lot. Since the clan Lasers are in the game it is getting worse. Enemies are so incredably far away that the dont even render on termal vision and are at best 40 to 60 pixel high on normal vision, still they manage to precisely remove my center torso at that distance.

I cant not return fire. I simply cant! I have no weapon which can cover that distance, and I have utterly no idea how it can be possible in this game to shoot that precice on a target which can be barely seen at best.

I feel like being in a contest with other people in the same room, to build an actual, flying aeroplane, while I can only manage to fold a paper plane.

How can I defend against that?

Regards
Lorgarn

Use cover. Always have 1 weapon that reaches out at least 1000m if not 1200m. Sorry, but those are the superior weapon systems and style of play, just like the rifle is superior to the sword in real life.

[Mogney]

Another tip is that the radar depravation module is currently broken in the extreme. use it on every mech you run, if they shoot you, drop behidn cover and reposition, they will lose sight of you instantly with that module equipped.

[Pekiti]

Snipers in MWO work the same way they do in real life. They kill by ambush, from a distance, and non-moving targets are their preferred prey.

1. Always assume someone can see your mech, even if you don't see/hear a warning. Standing in the open is asking to be murdered, even if the enemy didn't bring LRMs. Keep moving anytime you aren't behind solid cover.

2. If you get hit, immediately torso twist. This is the one thing that can save your mech from being burned down where you stand.

That bears repeating, and explaining. Clan lasers have greater range, but they also have a much longer Dwell Time - they need to stay on target longer to apply that damage. If you see the laser hit your cockpit, or you see the red flashing border around your HUD showing you are being hit from behind/right.left, you need to instantly react and turn your torso to the sides. This will spread the damage they do over more than one location, and prevent them from simply burning through your CT.

3. While you are torso twisting, you need to get into cover: behind a tall rock, a building, another mech (friend OR enemy), down in a canyon, off a short cliff, anything to break the line-of-sight on you. This is vital for incoming LRMs too.


That's really the best thing you can do to prevent getting sniped - move from cover to cover, torso twist any time you take fire, and get under cover if you are getting shot up. Don't panic either - at very long range not only does it take time to apply their damage, but the lasers are only doing a fraction of their normal damage.

Edited by Pekiti, 28 July 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Use cover to close ground on the enemy. Keep torso twisting. If you chose to return fire with your own long range weapons, don't stay in the same place and try to return fire. Move, be unpredictable. If you keep trying to snipe from the same place, they will anticipate you and be waiting.

[Autobot9000]

Snipers use the advanced zoom module, which helps a good bit. If you alternate at random longitudinal and lateral movement they will have immense problems hitting you with Gauss or PPC. If they shoot you with ER large lasers use cover. Learning the maps and advance paths versus encounter zones is part of the game.

[Sug]

The Great Unwashed, on 28 July 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

move

Jody Von Jedi, on 28 July 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Move

Bilbo, on 28 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

stay in cover and close.

DONTOR, on 28 July 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

utilize cover better

Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Use cover.

Mogney, on 28 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

drop behind cover and reposition

Pekiti, on 28 July 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Keep moving anytime you aren't behind solid cover.

you need to get into cover

move from cover to cover

Jody Von Jedi, on 28 July 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Use cover to close ground on the enemy

Autobot9000, on 28 July 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

use cover.

[IraqiWalker]

When you start the match press "B", and figure out where the snipers are going to be. It's not as difficult as it seems, and try and imagine their firing lines. What's left now is all the safe spots you can take.

[Arkroma]

So there's a lot you can do when you get sniped:
1. Don't get sniped at the first place.
Do NOT stay in the open for too long for whatever reason. This might need a bit of knowledge about the map and sometimes you have to learn it the hard way. Stay in cover will not only save you from snipers, but also LRMs.

2. Endure when you have to.
Keep your self alive by twisting, finding cover. If you carry long range weapons you can return some suppresion fire, but don't stop moving while doing so, you are very unlikely to out-shoot a sniper who already has the upper hand.

3. Make him pay.
A lot of players don't really change positions unless they are getting hammered, so if you are a sniper yourself and you know where your sniper is, you can almost always send some bullets back (from your prefered sniping spot that is). If you are not a sniper yourself, use map knowledge to get close, or just avoid them as long as possible. Most games will come down to a chaotic furball-ish big brawl where you can totally find your sniper during the chaos and beat him up as snipers are much weaker in a brawl than actual brawlers.

[Yelland]

Mogney, on 28 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Another tip is that the radar depravation module is currently broken in the extreme. use it on every mech you run, if they shoot you, drop behidn cover and reposition, they will lose sight of you instantly with that module equipped.

How is radar deprivation broken in the extreme? Your description seems to be exactly how it works and is supposed to work. It's a sort-of personal ECM, I never leave home without it. Everyone else can, please do.

It is hard to defend against a sniper that sees you, and you are not aware of. I always assume there is a sniper or that someone may see me. With that I try to maintain situational awareness. I don't sit still in an unknown environment or unknown LOS. Take into account the location of your team mates, use their eyes or even the assumption of what their eyes see.

This is both an offensive and defensive benefit. Offensive, if your teammates are making themselves visible (Assault etc.) they are creating opportunity for you. Defensive, if one side or flank has a couple teammates. It is an awareness buff and damage shield.

Doesn't mean I never get CT stripped by a dual gauss DWF, but I don't think it happens all that often. During a brawl I can get nailed by them. Not a pro but I don't feel outgunned by them. I typically run mid-short range builds unless I am playing LRM.

My biggest enemy in MWO is team momentum, not gameplay and weapon mechanics. It's no one's fault in a PUG environment, just nature. In here Snipers have a perceived advantage because of their nature. Patience in backline, and opportunity.

I scan the back and foregrounds as much as possible. Avoid open areas, unless for example in a case where there are a few reds left, and I know where and what they are.

My C-bills worth of perspective.

[JigglyMoobs]

Everyone has made good suggestions. The one thing I would add is that a great portion of the value a sniper brings to a team is intimidation. Snipers can keep down individual mechs but cannot stop a group in a determined push some where.

Sometimes it's just you and the sniper and he just wants your cookies. Then you can hide behind cover.

Other times however, the sniper is really trying to pin down some fraction of your team for the rest of his team to out maneuver you. Besides sniping you, he may also drop arty and airstrike. Under those circumstances, if you hide or slow down, he's accomplished his purpose.

So, if your team is all moving determinedly in some direction, the best thing for you to do is to follow the team. Torso twist to spread the sniper damage, but don't hide and don't slow down. Your torso twisting + blocking of his beam from your teammates will spread the damage sufficiently.

A clan 4x erLL Timberwolf can only manage 4ish dps without overheating. Don't let 4 dps shut down your team's push.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Very simple, stay close to some cover.

[Kjudoon]

It's amazing that this is the same advice given for dealing with LRMs.

[Mazzyplz]

sadly new players are a bit of a disadvantage in this area because for a long time, the thermal vision in the game showed you targets at 2500 meters in a very clear blue color, this was dubbed - predator mode

it was a lot easier to snipe people in "predator mode" before they changed it to a 800 meter-range white-washout
but people still got a feel for how to shoot and what the targets look like

i can put a ppc shell on a cicada and sometimes a firestarter at 1200 meters on river city and i use no advanced zoom module. with time you learn to recognize just the silhouette of the mechs and what a little blur they are on the screen

one thing that does give me quite an edge over some players is i play on a 32 inch widescreen (and i had 42 inch widescreen before), so the smallest targets i can still pretty much see OK.

you probably want to get a 32 or 42 inch widescreen

[Sky Hawk]

(Ich nehme an, als Sniper du benutzt Advanced Zoom, sonst du warst kein Sniper...)

Also, bis du deine eigene Clan Mech (für CB) nicht hast, kannst du nichst tun.. Wie ich sehe, selbst ein Clan Fahrrad hat mindestens ein CERLL, und wenn jemand noch einpaar Tonnen für Targeting Computer draufpackt, kann er dir von überall treffen. Wie die anderen sagten: bleibt nur Ducken... (Ich persöhnlich habe mich von ERLL-Sniper zu LRM-Boat-in-Deckung geweckselt, zumindest bis Ende Herbst.)

Und Thermal und Heat "sehen" nicht sehr weit... Ausser in eine Sneesturm, ich benutze nur Normalsicht mit Advanced Zoom. In allen Nachtkarten kann man eigentlich der Weite gut sehen mit Normalsicht, nur in der Nahkampf braucht man Nachtsicht manschmal...

Und Wer und Was man sieht.. In Canyon hat mich ein Gauss-Sniper 2-mal in Kopf getroffen von über 1.100 meter... Als Tote, hatte ich Zeit zu Fragen, Wie er das macht... Er hatte nur Advanced Zoom wie ich.. ???

Nun, in meine kleine Bildschirm und LOW PC sehe ich von 1000 m, mit Advanced Zoom ein Atlas nur maximal als 1.8 cm Gross...... Aber er sagte, er konnte mein Kopf-Fenster sehr klar sehen... Wie? Nun, in eine Grosse Bildschirm, mit sehr gute Auflösung kann man wirklich sehr gut alle Detaile sehen...

Also: Ducken, Clan Mech, andere Spielweise und gute PC braucht man Heuzutage zum Snipen... Leider die Alte Zeiten sind Vorbei... für immer...

[Yelland]

Here is something else to consider.

While a sniper provides situational damage benefit to the team, they do not provide as much team benefit. I could argue that snipers in the current state of MWO are a detriment to PUG team play. Their own team, not the red.

How many times have you seen your team drop and then the remaining one or two mechs are at 90%, long range of engagement, with a couple of ERLL, ERPPC (running hot), or Gauss?

Adv zoom on, and in a panic when the 3-4 remaining reds come barreling down on them. I feel their gameplay experience lies in staying at range, so they depend heavily on team support for distraction. (perhaps a generalization, but I see it often spectating.)

In a closer engagement their tonnage spread over team may have given you the upper hand versus their ~500 damage in a defeat.