117 replies to this topic

[Samual Kalkin]

MonkeyCheese, on 28 July 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

While I agree with that most slower assaults dont even bother to ask for any help.

I can count the number of times I have seen an assault ask for an escort in the solo queue when on a large map like terra therma or alpine, and when they do I always run back in my med/light to give them some extra cover, if im ecm or not...

I stopped asking for any help a long time ago. In my experience, almost all the people people playing this game just hang you out to dry and use you taking fire as a diversion to hide. I have also tried to stifle my instinct to support so-called teammates, because every time I do, they use my engagement to run away leaving me to fight alone.

[Levon K]

Run Conquest mode, it's the superior mode.

[Deathlike]

Here's a reality - it is two-fold:

1) The Dire Whale pilot MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST GET MOVING INTO COVER OR DRIVE IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TEAM. Failure to do so in the precious first few seconds is asking to be immediately stranded with an ETA of :30 or less.

Part of this is an obvious artifact of the spawn system... where different maps have their own quirks to locations. While the MM "could" be used to facilitate drop location spawning (putting the Dire Wolf in a better situation to succeed), this is not an optimal solution... rather changing spawn points (or even randomizing drops/spawns) is probably better. Still, there isn't really an excuse for the Dire Wolf pilot to not get moving immediately.

2) The TEAM, PARTICULARLY those in the Dire Wolf's lance, should be offering to help the Dire Wolf out. While this is probably going to be a questionable tale in solo play, you can still do this WILLINGLY in group play (even if the teammate/player is NOT on your coms). This is something rarely done these days.. in the true sense of the word "teamwork". While the "NASCAR" approach to "winning" is COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on the blob's ability to actually move with alacrity, the weakness is tries to exploit WORKS BOTH WAYS, which is counter-intuitive to the execution of said plan. It takes a smarter player (or a competent company commander) to recognize these things as adjust for such behavior and deployments.

Teamwork is ALWAYS a two way street... and some people do it better than others. I honestly don't think there's enough people that strive to be a better teammate, and so often "shooting skills" and "soloing" are often things people focus on moreso than "focus fire" and "working together".

Sometimes people can't see the forest from the trees, so rather than say that the OP JMan/JHunch is right or wrong (he's correct on his side of the street), it is a team's responsibility to some degree for the welfare of the other players. Leaving the Dire Whale alone to die tends to be a team's own fault, but fault can be had on BOTH the Dire Wolf pilot AND the lance he/she is running in.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 July 2014 - 04:45 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

Moving 'mechs between lances doesn't actually change the position they drop...it just changes who they identify as their lance in the HUD.

*Edit: I finished reading the thread...and I was a day late with this response ...lol..ninjas!*

Edited by Ghost Badger, 29 July 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DONTOR, on 28 July 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Its true.. its true. Playing assult in super slow fatties is the way to go.

serious players play Training Wheels Mode....er Skirmish?!?!

well, I guess it does limit the tactical variables for flexing one's Epeen.

[Bilbo]

Roadkill, on 28 July 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

I don't know Bilbo, but I do know Jman5 from when we were in the same unit.

Given that, my bet's on Jman. And those who know Jman also know that that's not at all a knock on Bilbo.

That's sorta like "who you gonna bet on, Wispsy or RandomLightPilot007?"

It was a joke. But, either way, I ain't skeered.

[Yokaiko]

Levon K, on 29 July 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

Run Conquest mode, it's the superior mode.

Except for the more time for less money thing.

PGI has fashioned it so XP and cash gains = skirmish. Period.

[Teeboy]

Actually I see way more often, the exact opposite. People rush in like Rambo without thinking, then die and complain that the rest of the team sucks because they didn't help then rage quits or they will criticize all the players still alive because they don't know how to play and they are noobs.

I don't care either way, I have been playing for nearly two years and still have fun, win or lose.

Perhaps the ones complaining of other's play styles should look in the mirror.

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 July 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

There may be one reason.

I find my Weapon groups will sometimes get... Lost. So a moment to reset them. Other than that...

Given that we are talking about slow mechs in the thread, it should be possible for them to get moving in the right direction and then during that travel time reset their Weapon Groups. It's not like they need to be constantly turning corners and adjusting their angle.

[NextGame]

Teeboy, on 29 July 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Actually I see way more often, the exact opposite. People rush in like Rambo without thinking, then die and complain that the rest of the team sucks because they didn't help then rage quits or they will criticize all the players still alive because they don't know how to play and they are noobs.

I don't care either way, I have been playing for nearly two years and still have fun, win or lose.

Perhaps the ones complaining of other's play styles should look in the mirror.

Rambo mode is best mode. So amazeballs that it currently has its own queue.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Jman5, on 28 July 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think we've all seen this before. You spawn on River City Skirmish and begin rotating to catch the lone spawn at either the airport or by the boat. It's a race to catch them before they can escape. Meanwhile you notice on the radar some direwolf at your tail that's standing still or even moving in the opposite direction.

You catch one or two of the enemy's mechs and then see your own direwolf blip disappear on the map as he is overrun.

Then he loudly complains in all chat: "OMG MY TEAM LEFT ME TO DIE!"

The PUG mentality isn't unlike a pack of prey in the wild. The guy who wanders off or gets left behind gets picked apart by the predators.

In a PUG match, I think it is always better to stick with your team so it is harder to get singled out by the enemy (strength in numbers).

If you are that really slow Assault, try to keep moving with the pack. If your left behind, good luck.

[WarHippy]

Deathlike, on 29 July 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

Here's a reality - it is two-fold:

1) The Dire Whale pilot MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST GET MOVING INTO COVER OR DRIVE IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TEAM. Failure to do so in the precious first few seconds is asking to be immediately stranded with an ETA of :30 or less.

Part of this is an obvious artifact of the spawn system... where different maps have their own quirks to locations. While the MM "could" be used to facilitate drop location spawning (putting the Dire Wolf in a better situation to succeed), this is not an optimal solution... rather changing spawn points (or even randomizing drops/spawns) is probably better. Still, there isn't really an excuse for the Dire Wolf pilot to not get moving immediately.

2) The TEAM, PARTICULARLY those in the Dire Wolf's lance, should be offering to help the Dire Wolf out. While this is probably going to be a questionable tale in solo play, you can still do this WILLINGLY in group play (even if the teammate/player is NOT on your coms). This is something rarely done these days.. in the true sense of the word "teamwork". While the "NASCAR" approach to "winning" is COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on the blob's ability to actually move with alacrity, the weakness is tries to exploit WORKS BOTH WAYS, which is counter-intuitive to the execution of said plan. It takes a smarter player (or a competent company commander) to recognize these things as adjust for such behavior and deployments.

Teamwork is ALWAYS a two way street... and some people do it better than others. I honestly don't think there's enough people that strive to be a better teammate, and so often "shooting skills" and "soloing" are often things people focus on moreso than "focus fire" and "working together".

Sometimes people can't see the forest from the trees, so rather than say that the OP JMan/JHunch is right or wrong (he's correct on his side of the street), it is a team's responsibility to some degree for the welfare of the other players. Leaving the Dire Whale alone to die tends to be a team's own fault, but fault can be had on BOTH the Dire Wolf pilot AND the lance he/she is running in.

This is almost exactly what I was saying earlier in the thread, but you were far more verbose than I was.

[Zypher]

Wow some of the posts defending the views of the OP. Sorry guys, MWO is a team game, there isn't any gameplay mode that doesn't require the help of your team. Granted whiners get annoying, but honestly pub play has all sorts. At the end of the day if you don't know how to play the game without letting your assaults get ***** on any map on any game type that falls on the team. Sure there are bad assaults, but again, there are all sorts in pub matches. You don't see this issue in large group play, there is no reason for it in pubs, just excuses for bad behavior...well and no comms, but again everyone knows better.

[Sethliopod]

Seems to me it comes down to communication. In pugs, that's currently very restricted.*

But I think odds are best to not go back to help the slow stragglers.

It's far too likely that:
> Some or most of Charlie Lance will choose to run to the main group.
> The slow straggler will take your movement as indication that you want to stay and fight, and not move to the main group.
> You might incline one or of the main group to follow you, thus really spreading the force out, allowing it to get eaten bit by bit.
> The two of you will be overrun, instead of just the slow guy.

*Until we are able to block the text/speech of other players, there is no way I want to see pug communication made easier.

I've been asked what kind of engine I had in my Nova, as I was moving a steady 50. Was it that inconceivable that I would be keeping pace with my mobile Bullet-Magnet DW?

[BARBAR0SSA]

"Run Conquest mode, it's the superior mode"

No....no it is not, it's a mode for some really bad players to mask their inability to think.

Great example, River City, team runs around in circles capping and avoiding all combat, even so far as to ditch 2 guys and run off!

So I parked my DW on the other side of the boat since they would just sacrifice me. Then they proceeded to piss and moan that I wasn't running around capping across the map in a tank.

I will say, Alpine Conquest is one of my most favorite maps now, when the fighting is in the lower hills, epic.

[Mc JR]

Ok here is the deal. Your assaults need support to move with the team when we assaults are moving to get to the team and start getting r-a-p-p-e-d because the team ran off know full well we would get r-a-p-p-e-d we to get pissy because after ya'll lose it gets blamed on us for doing little to no dmg. Now I am sorry PGI capped my dire wolf at 53 kph but you have to be flexible in what you do as a team. If all or most of your assaults spawn on one side of them map move to them instead of running away "tail hunting" I have seen on river city when all the assaults are on one side the team moves to them and its a stomp because its now a 12v8 in your favor instead of 8v4 in theirs. (The exception being alpine starting on radio tower side because we are out of range and get get out.) Gone are the days of atlas's running 62 kph and keeping up with the fast moving teams, now most of the time its going to be dire wolfs running 53kph, simply because its a better support boat/brawler. Now you want to run a light go ahead and run off that's what they are there for, but running a fast med/heavy and not covering your slow friends effectively leaving them to die is your fault because well, WE ARE THERE TO KNOCK DOWN EVERY MECH WE CAN SUPPORTING YOU. So in short we will quit bitching about being left to die when you start playing like a team and supporting us so we can support you.

Edited by Mc JR, 29 July 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[SpartanOfValor]

Jman5, on 28 July 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think we've all seen this before. You spawn on River City Skirmish and begin rotating to catch the lone spawn at either the airport or by the boat. It's a race to catch them before they can escape. Meanwhile you notice on the radar some direwolf at your tail that's standing still or even moving in the opposite direction.

You catch one or two of the enemy's mechs and then see your own direwolf blip disappear on the map as he is overrun.

Then he loudly complains in all chat: "OMG MY TEAM LEFT ME TO DIE!"

No idiot, you let yourself die by not understanding the map spawns and standing around by yourself. You have the time to get out of there at 53 kph, but you have to move with a purpose and cut corners when necessary. Worst case scenario, you should be running and gunning to discourage anyone from pushing your position.

Your team then has to keep moving, cutting corners to catch their slow tail.

This is how Skirmish plays. You can cry all day about the injustices of it, but it plays this way because being aggressive from the start works. If you can't handle moving ASAP when the match starts, and you hate constantly moving all game, UNCHECK SKIRMISH.

On almost every map skirmish has spread out spawn points. In fact many maps isolate one spawn point from the rest which can create an 8v4 situation if you let it happen.

• Assault is perfect for players who like immobile game modes because the turrets hinder mobility and pushes. You also all spawn closer together on every map.

• Conquest has similarly close starting spawns. So it's perfect for people who want to start close together, but still like moving around later in the match.

If you insist on playing Skirmish in your slow mech, then I beg you to learn to keep up, and cut more corners when you feel you're getting left behind. If we're on caustic and the team is rotating around the caldera to catch their slow lrm boats, CUT THROUGH THE CALDERA. Use your superior firepower to keep the enemy team from shooting you. Above all, pay attention to the map and the position of your team.

This is a TEAM game, not a solo you win by playing as a team, if you leave someone behind it is a disadvantage, for example, if I go 106.7KPH and run up leaving 2 slow heaves and all my assaults behind to push onto the landing pad on River city, what happens when they push around the 2 line to the citadel and they get caught out, you are now down 5-0 because no one was at the landing pad and you are no longer able to win because all of your weight was left behind because you THOUGHT you were fast enough to go kill the mechs and gain an advantage. If you stayed with your assaults, they would not have died, you wouldn't be out of position to help whats not dead already, and you are in a decent position. SO how about you "UNCHECK SKIRMISH" if you want to run ahead and leave everyone behind.

Edited by LegoSpartan, 29 July 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Hate to tell the OP, but with 3/3/3/3 you are going to get fatties. Not their fault PGI dropped them on River City/River City Night.

The problem is poor spawn points. With the ring around the map push, any stuck in the left hand lance (facing the middle of the map) are sure to die. There is also one lance (and only on one side) that is in a similar boat on Crimson Straight. Fix the spawn points and the problem will (mostly) go away.