117 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Jman5, on 28 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

You're not blindly running off. You're moving with a purpose to take advantage of any opportunities the enemy team gave you with a mismatch in force strength (8v4). You're then continuing the movement to put pressure on any players who got tunnel vision.

Nothing wrong with that strategy, but it does have a draw back, and that draw back is that you end up leaving some behind that may end up getting swarmed. It is a bit of a gamble to play that way, and it may not always work out in your favor. When it doesn't go well because your stragglers got killed don't blame them, but rather blame your use of a strategy that was ill-suited for your team comp.

[Roadkill]

Jman5, on 28 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

You're not blindly running off. You're moving with a purpose to take advantage of any opportunities the enemy team gave you with a mismatch in force strength (8v4). You're then continuing the movement to put pressure on any players who got tunnel vision.

Speaking of tunnel vision...

If you aren't paying attention to the makeup of your company while you're waiting for the game to launch, then you are absolutely 100% blindly running off.

If Charlie Lance is full of assaults, why are you pushing counter-clockwise? Why aren't you using the advantage that Charlie's assaults give you to instead push clockwise for once?

Why? Because you have tunnel vision and aren't willing to consider other possible ways to be aggressive.

Pressing the attack counter-clockwise might net you one or two enemy laggers, but in doing so you're going to lose one or two of your own at the same time. So it isn't actually advantage. In fact what you're really relying on when you do that is that your team's laggers are better players than the enemy team's laggers. Is that really a smart gamble? After all, this entire thread is saying that those players (on both teams) are bad players.

I'm not saying don't be aggressive. I'm saying you need to be smart about it, and full-speed-NASCAR-counter-clockwise usually isn't the right answer. ESPECIALLY if you believe that the laggers on both teams are bad players. At the bare minimum you should be using your own team's laggers as meat shields to destroy the enemy team's good players instead of simply exchanging bad for bad.

[divinedisclaimer]

It can be said to the the lone assault should know how to handle that situation. There are positions you can put your back to a wall where no matter how many enemies round the corner on you not more than one or two will be able to attack you, at which point you can do grievous harm to them.

This obviously doesn't apply to very open maps.

[n r g]

Jman5, on 28 July 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think we've all seen this before. You spawn on River City Skirmish and begin rotating to catch the lone spawn at either the airport or by the boat. It's a race to catch them before they can escape. Meanwhile you notice on the radar some direwolf at your tail that's standing still or even moving in the opposite direction.

You catch one or two of the enemy's mechs and then see your own direwolf blip disappear on the map as he is overrun.

Then he loudly complains in all chat: "OMG MY TEAM LEFT ME TO DIE!"

No idiot, you let yourself die by not understanding the map spawns and standing around by yourself. You have the time to get out of there at 53 kph, but you have to move with a purpose and cut corners when necessary. Worst case scenario, you should be running and gunning to discourage anyone from pushing your position.

Your team then has to keep moving, cutting corners to catch their slow tail.

This is how Skirmish plays. You can cry all day about the injustices of it, but it plays this way because being aggressive from the start works. If you can't handle moving ASAP when the match starts, and you hate constantly moving all game, UNCHECK SKIRMISH.

On almost every map skirmish has spread out spawn points. In fact many maps isolate one spawn point from the rest which can create an 8v4 situation if you let it happen.

• Assault is perfect for players who like immobile game modes because the turrets hinder mobility and pushes. You also all spawn closer together on every map.

• Conquest has similarly close starting spawns. So it's perfect for people who want to start close together, but still like moving around later in the match.

If you insist on playing Skirmish in your slow mech, then I beg you to learn to keep up, and cut more corners when you feel you're getting left behind. If we're on caustic and the team is rotating around the caldera to catch their slow lrm boats, CUT THROUGH THE CALDERA. Use your superior firepower to keep the enemy team from shooting you. Above all, pay attention to the map and the position of your team.

Skirmish doesn't HAVE TO be played that way. That's absurd.

Learn to set-up a firing line and destroy the enemy when they try to flank around you, rather then run away and claim maps must be "played that way".

Black/white, linear mentality anyone?

[Dracol]

Although Jman does make a good point, it is also predictable. If the lance at the airport feels up to it and has the tonnage, defending against the predictable rush by the enemy can be advantageous. You have the high ground, you know where they are going to go, and it favors brawlers over snipers.

The main thing I find that makes either strategy effective is comms. If you're going be taking a lance to chase the tail, let your allies know. The inverse is also true. If you're going to stand ground up in the airport, let your allies know. It amazes me sometimes how a little pre battle typing can make a solo team (or 3 4mans) act like a unified force.

The best compliment I get from the enemy in the solo queue when I do this is "Nice premade"

[El Bandito]

Yet another reason why Timberwolf is the master race and heavies are the most numerous class.

[Adiuvo]

E N E R G Y, on 28 July 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Skirmish doesn't HAVE TO be played that way. That's absurd.

Learn to set-up a firing line and destroy the enemy when they try to flank around you, rather then run away and claim maps must be "played that way".

Black/white, linear mentality anyone?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about pubs and not a 12man.

[GoManGo]

Odin's Fist={Lately I have seen more Atlas assault mechs moving slower, and ditching the bigger engines so they can mount as much firepower as possible to compensate for the Clan Mech Boogyman. I see a lot of 48 and 52KPH Atlases struggling to keep up, and I have even seen slower Victors.}


Bingo you right because the IS mechs are=(Under-powered,Under-gunned,Under-manuverable,Under-everything,Under-armore,Under-hit-boxes) compared to clan mechs I had to make a choice on how I setup my assault mechs now (faster/DPS or slower/Fire-Power) and im finding I have to set up all my IS mechs now for as big a alpha strike as I can to compete with the clan mechs hoping I get that lucky alpha shot that cripples them so im way slow moving to the battle and with my unit and team.

Until PGI fixes all the IS mechs hit-boxes and armor I only have 1 choice to compensate for Clan Mechs that to try and stay with my unit and move with my team and lay down as much fire-power as fast as i can to help my team win.And like I said I think most assault pilots understand this concept and the heavies,mediums and lights need to support the team more and not try to be LEET33 charging in and dyeing before there assaults get to the battle.

Edited by GoManGo, 28 July 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

p.s. - I've been corrected on this...your drop location is fixed even if you shuffle mechs around...PGI should change this so that we can be making strategic decisions and not be suffering from randomness.

Edited by Sarsaparilla Kid, 29 July 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[Appogee]

A Dire Wolf moving at top speed can be easily left behind by an unthinking blob, despite its best efforts to keep up. So, sometimes those 'cry babies' have a valid case to claim that their team left them behind to die.

[Roadkill]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

Doesn't do what you think it does. That just changes the Mechs' lance assignments. It does NOT change their drop locations.

[WarHippy]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

If you are talking about the starting match screen where you see everyone loading in then this doesn't help. Yes, you can change the lances around, but the mechs still remain in their original location.

[Dracol]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

Only draw back is they still spawn in the position of the lance they were initially contained in.

Edit: Dang ninjas are everywhere....

Edited by Dracol, 28 July 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[TB Freelancer]

Roadkill, on 28 July 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Conversely, if you blindly run off and abandon your assaults you can also ensure your team the loss.

Or if you stop with the NASCAR and instead move to support Charlie Lance from the beginning, you can meet the enemy's blind rush head on and crush it, thus ensuring your team an easy win.

Stop blaming the assaults for being assaults. The more mobile Mechs are just as responsible for the bad play as the assaults, because instead of abandoning their assaults they should have adjusted their tactics to support them.

Just because a couple of idiots dash off doesn't mean you should follow them. Everyone should be assessing the team composition while waiting for the game to start, and if Charlie Lance contains assaults then everyone should re-assess the NASCAR strategy.

Re-assess? Not with all the Vagisil they drink....

[Davers]

E N E R G Y, on 28 July 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Skirmish doesn't HAVE TO be played that way. That's absurd.

Learn to set-up a firing line and destroy the enemy when they try to flank around you, rather then run away and claim maps must be "played that way".

Black/white, linear mentality anyone?

Of course setting up a firing line means waiting for the slow assaults in the other lances to move into position. What happens if they don't start moving immediately? Then the lance setting up the firing line gets overrun.

This is a discussion about the lance nearest the enemy not moving towards their team. You are making a discussion about the lances furthest from the enemy not moving towards their team.

[Odins Fist]

Goose, on 28 July 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

As interesting as this thread is, I fail to see how "stick with the blob" counts as aggressive …

EXAMPLE: Firing at an enemy Mech is an act of "aggression".
EXAMPLE: While you trying to move into position BEFORE firing, you are simply maneuvering.

One is an act of aggression, and the other is preparation.

Edited by Odins Fist, 28 July 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[mogs01gt]

This issue is simply caused by mobility and the lack of game modes to spread out the usefulness of mechs. Mechs are designed to fight in waves. Scouting lights>light killing Mediums> Heavies killing Mediums and fighting other Heavies> Meds and lights supporting Heavies. The issue is in MWO, most high ton Assaults are typically better at defending rather than playing the TDM game due to lack of speed. Only a few Assaults do well in the TDM atmosphere.

[Budor]

If you know that they are coming might aswell hold a good position. Cant see how this is not the better plan especially if you have slow ass deathstars on the team.

Edited by Budor, 28 July 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Bilbo]

Appogee, on 28 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

A Dire Wolf moving at top speed can be easily left behind by an unthinking blob, despite its best efforts to keep up. So, sometimes those 'cry babies' have a valid case to claim that their team left them behind to die.

This has been happening to Atlases for ages. They get the same sort of flak for it.

[Davers]

Roadkill, on 28 July 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

If Charlie Lance is full of assaults, why are you pushing counter-clockwise? Why aren't you using the advantage that Charlie's assaults give you to instead push clockwise for once?

That requires communication. Also, some people drop into match so late they don't even see the ready screen.

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Here's a thought...take command and move all slow assaults to Bravo Lance before the match starts, if it makes sense for the map and the mode. Most of the time, Bravo is in the middle, not stuck at one end or the other.

If we could actually move mechs like that, this would be a much more strategic game.

Bilbo, on 28 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

This has been happening to Atlases for ages. They get the same sort of flak for it.

Except the Dire Wolf is the only assault that can't upgrade it's engine to move 60+.