45 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

Wating for someone to use Clan pulse laser sounds and Betty in a dubstep remix video.

[Deathlike]

Paul hates wub and a 4 MPL Jenner is generally a bad idea. When HSR wasn't in play, it was a better idea to get more damage in, but not so much is needed at this point. Then again, HSR and lasers have been kinda wonky for a while.

[Roland]

You can fantasize all you want about some imaginary world where the pulse lasers are good, but that doesn't make it so.

Sure, it's possible to construct some contrived situation where pulse lasers' upsides are all highlighted and the downsides don't matter, but in real practical use they are inferior weapons.

Generally, their increased damage and reduced burn time end up being totally offset by their reduced range, meaning than in many actual game situations, you end up doing less damage to a target per period of time holding the beam on them. Meaning that a regular laser, used exactly the same way, would have put better damage down range.

Given that fact, you are left with a weapon which is heavier and hotter, with really no upside at all.

The only case where the pulse lasers have any clear upside at all are when you are within their optimal range, but when actually playing the game, all engagements don't take place at that range... Especially if you aren't in a mech which is fast enough to dictate range. And even in those cases, the pulse lasers aren't a clear choice.. They are merely not as clearly the Wrong choice.

So you have a weapon which, under optimal circumstances, is merely "not totally terrible", and under real, practical usage is clearly inferior.

That's not a result for success.

That is not to say that they cannot kill mechs. Any weapon can kill a mech, given a great enough disparity in pilot skill, or perhaps dumb luck once you get far enough into the underhive. But that isn't a real argument in favor of using a weapon.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Roland, on 28 July 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

You can fantasize all you want about some imaginary world where the pulse lasers are good, but that doesn't make it so.

Sure, it's possible to construct some contrived situation where pulse lasers' upsides are all highlighted and the downsides don't matter, but in real practical use they are inferior weapons.

Generally, their increased damage and reduced burn time end up being totally offset by their reduced range, meaning than in many actual game situations, you end up doing less damage to a target per period of time holding the beam on them. Meaning that a regular laser, used exactly the same way, would have put better damage down range.

Given that fact, you are left with a weapon which is heavier and hotter, with really no upside at all.

The only case where the pulse lasers have any clear upside at all are when you are within their optimal range, but when actually playing the game, all engagements don't take place at that range... Especially if you aren't in a mech which is fast enough to dictate range. And even in those cases, the pulse lasers aren't a clear choice.. They are merely not as clearly the Wrong choice.

So you have a weapon which, under optimal circumstances, is merely "not totally terrible", and under real, practical usage is clearly inferior.

That's not a result for success.

That is not to say that they cannot kill mechs. Any weapon can kill a mech, given a great enough disparity in pilot skill, or perhaps dumb luck once you get far enough into the underhive. But that isn't a real argument in favor of using a weapon.

There is no clear, right way to play this game.

If you listened to competitive players a few patches ago before the JJ nerf, they'd have told you that the only way to play the game was to bring FLD and JJ equiped mechs and jump around behind hills as the ONE TRUE WAY.

I'm sorry that you feel so beholden to utilize broken concepts at competitive levels simply to compete, and that you cannot work around the shortcomings of some weapons systems to squeeze the good out of them. Sounds more like player failure in that instance.

[MonkeyCheese]

My Locust 1M is a 2mpl 2srm2 Wubber.

My Kitfox S is a 2clpl Wubber.

My spider 5D is a 2ml 1lpl Wubber.

My deaths knell is a 2ml 2mpl Wubber.

My Blackjack 1x is a 6ml 2lpl Wubber.

My Blackjack Arrow is a 6mg 2lpl Wubber.

ALL HAIL THE WUB

Edit- havent really gotten round to driving my novas at all so no wub there yet but if I get my hands on a stormcrow I will be doing triple wub http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d346de45743995c I know I could fit this on a nova but less space for heat sinks and armor.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 28 July 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[El Bandito]

Still trying to make a 9 MPL Heart Break Kid to work. Will post if successful.

[SirLANsalot]

All Hail the Wub!

Note: Was first match I took that build out on

[Sug]

Try the wub for yourself. Ignore the omgshortrange argument and just get into damn range before you use them...

My 4mpl Jenner is a ******* vulture on the battlefield. My 3LpL 9M just hacks mechs appart. Even my terrible joke of a Battlemaster with 4 Lpls can mess **** up.

There's other weapons besides PPCs and AC5's. Just need to play differently. You don't poptart with mpls and you dont' brawl with ppcs.

[CocoaJin]

Roland, on 28 July 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Sure, it's possible to construct some contrived situation where pulse lasers' upsides are all highlighted and the downsides don't matter, but in real practical use they are inferior weapons.

The only case where the pulse lasers have any clear upside at all are when you are within their optimal range, but when actually playing the game, all engagements don't take place at that range... Especially if you aren't in a mech which is fast enough to dictate range. And even in those cases, the pulse lasers aren't a clear choice.

So you can admit that in the right hands and the right chassis they are viable? In fact, one could argue that in this contrived build it would surpass standard lasers. So ultimately, effective Pulse Laser usage is based on proper application. That would suggest they are neither superior or inferior, just different.

So I'd argue that Pulse Lasers are great when used appropriately...they just so happen to suck for you send how you play. And that's ok,being of a great warrior is identifying the proper tools for his role and task at hand...but it isn't the first, nor the last time a warrior under estimates a weapon he doesn't understand or knows how to appreciate.

The US Navy learned this the hard way when it determined guns were inferior and obsolete on modern fighter aircraft, only to find they kept losing their top of the line, air superiority missile fighters to guns only MiG17s. It turned out guns were better in certain ways, and a few 17 pilots learned how to exploit its strengths to great effect.

[Y E O N N E]

My Locust 3M uses 5 small wubs,

My Locust 1V has a single medium wub.

My Arrow has a large wub and two medium wubs, for super wubbage.

My Dragon 1C has a duo of medium wubs.

Haven't played the Dragon enough to know how well it works, but the other three are super-effective with their wubs.

[YueFei]

El Bandito, on 28 July 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

Still trying to make a 9 MPL Heart Break Kid to work. Will post if successful.

My friend runs that with an XL in his HBK.

Usually the plan is for me to tank things with my HBK-4SP.

That way he can hopefully approach without getting shot at and then knife somebody in the guts with 9 MPL. =P

Doesn't always work. Us both being short-ranged means we kinda rely on a teammate with long-ranged weapons to create openings for us to close. But it's fun.

[Mcgral18]

SirLANsalot, on 28 July 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Wrong


So very Wrong


The Pulse Laser is the best laser weapon. They are in between the FLD of a ballistic weapon, and the Duration of a Laser, they are perfect close quarters combat weapon. They also have a high crit chance (like LBX and MG) then other guns, and hence can do more damage then there stated number.

Pros of Pulse Lasers. (and they are big ones)
Shorter Duration and More Damage = more damage on target, on the location you want with very little heat or tonnage investment (compared to ballistic weapons or PPC's). The IS LPL is an amazing weapon, and fits in more places then the Pee Pee Cee. The Clan LPL is the highest damaging laser in the game, 11.8 damage (call it 12 basically), the duration on it needs to still be fixed but thats a minor thing really for a high skilled player.
The Medium Pulse Laser is a thing of beauty. For IS mechs, its just flat out better dishing out 6 damage in .75 seconds, that extra damage and shorter duration adds up during a fight. The Clan MPL just got a good buff a few patches ago and now acts much like its IS counterpart, being a little more damage and shorter duration (7.4 damage in .9 sec vs the flat 7 damage in 1.3 sec for the normal ML....the MPL wins here).

Cons.
Competes usually with other weapon systems that are lighter and (usually) take fewer crits. There heat is in the middle ground between "too hot" and too cold, they are in the Goldilocks zone on heat, there just right.


Overall the Pulse Laser is a very very good weapon system, that is perfectly balanced between its tonnage and its damage. Those "in the know" already know this and already use them. The Meta Sheep are the ones who have no clue what these are, much less know what a lazor is. There the ones scratching there heads wondering why (and how) a wub wub mech just obliterated them.

Pulse is King

Smurfy doesn't seem to mention any extra crit damage, while it does for the LBx series and MGs.

It gets the same chance as lasers, and every other weapon. Inferior critting potential compared to FLD...which are the best critting weapons.

If you have the choice between 4 MLs and 2 MPLs, there isn't much of a decision. 9.2 heat VS 12, 20 damage VS 12.

You say: "But the shorter pulse duration makes up for that!" While I counter with: "60% of 20 damage is still 12 damage"

So, for slightly more heat, you get the same damage in the same duration, with nearly double potential damage at greater range.


Pulse lasers are fun weapons, not good weapons.

SirLANsalot, on 28 July 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

All Hail the Wub!

Note: Was first match I took that build out on

That has nothing on the WubShee!

YueFei, on 28 July 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

My friend runs that with an XL in his HBK.

Usually the plan is for me to tank things with my HBK-4SP.

That way he can hopefully approach without getting shot at and then knife somebody in the guts with 9 MPL. =P

Doesn't always work. Us both being short-ranged means we kinda rely on a teammate with long-ranged weapons to create openings for us to close. But it's fun.

A 50 tonner with firepower that rivals the WubShee while moving faster! Not nearly as durable, but that firepower will hurt. For an alpha or two, since it also has more heat generation than the WubShee with a little less range with considerably less heatsinks.


They have a very small niche, but in reality are too hot, too heavy and too short ranged compared to normal lasers. cPLs are even worse off with their unreasonable burn times. cMPL is pretty much a more damaging isML for twice the tonnage.

Less heat or more damage would be one way to help the pulse lasers. Less tonnage is another unconventional, but not game-breaking way to help them as well.
Even shorter durations could also add incentive. If they were .3 seconds...that's pretty much FLD, but much lighter than ballistics and unlike SRMs you can actually aim them. They pay for that damage in heat and range.

As it stands: Fun weapons, not good weapons.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Pulse lasers definitely seem to have a little extra crit power, I've seen plenty of instances where they've killed or crippled mechs suddenly and prematurely. It could possibly just be a function of their higher FLD potential, but nevertheless it's an advantage they have over regular lasers.

MonkeyCheese, on 28 July 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Edit- havent really gotten round to driving my novas at all so no wub there yet but if I get my hands on a stormcrow I will be doing triple wub http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d346de45743995c I know I could fit this on a nova but less space for heat sinks and armor.

You'll likely find you want to move some of those lasers to torso mounts since the Stormcrow loses its arms more often than any other Clan mech.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 29 July 2014 - 01:21 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

I've had many occasions where my 5 SPL Locust seemingly killed a 'Mech through frontal armor. Many times an Atlas has jumped me with a deep orange core and red front armor, and still I killed it in one burst.

It even surprised the people spectating me.

Dunno how that works, but I'll take it.

[MonkeyCheese]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 29 July 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

You'll likely find you want to move some of those lasers to torso mounts since the Stormcrow loses its arms more often than any other Clan mech.

Good advice I shall have to do that when they come for cbills
Problem solved http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a0c701a3a5587fc

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 29 July 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

At least on clan side, pulse lasers are clearly and obviously inferior to ER lasers. just look at the numbers, its obvious!

C-ERLL vs C-LPL

LPL has 0.55 more damage, 0.5 less heat, and an amazing (not) 0.2 seconds reduction in burn time. for a 300(600) meter range loss, 2 extra tons and 1 extra slot. the LPL is at best very slightly better, and in reality its a wash, except its 2 tons heavier and takes twice the space.

C-ERML vs C-MPL

MPL has 0.4 extra damage, 0.4s lower duration for 0.5 extra heat and 50(100)m less range, and double the tonnage. its closer to being worth it, but no clan mechs really have the spare tonnage they cant use better, and 2xERML is a lot better than 1xMPL.

IS ones seem more worth it, due to a 40% reduction in burn time.. as opposed to a 15% reduction for the C-LPL (LOL)

Imo, for the clan pulses to be even situationally worth using they should drop the duration to 0.7 for the MPL and 0.9 for the LPL

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 29 July 2014 - 01:58 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Wub Wub Wub..

Can't forget the "Partyback" (9 SPLasers)



I actually tried it. Awesome in close, but thats the problem...in close. Real close. It makes this a really difficult mech to pilot sucessfully. When it does work though, it works well.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 29 July 2014 - 02:12 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

JR7-F, LCT-1E, LCT-3M, and COM-TDK are the best Light wub-machines. They have the speed to get in close and pump out small wub volleys like no tomorrow. Don't even need cool shot because that same speed advantage will get you back out again.

Partyback, on the other hand, only goes 98 kph at best. I'd suggest the 6x MPL build instead.

[Blood Rose]

Well I do use IS MPLs on one of my Mechs, my K2.

They provide some good in-close defence against marauding lights and those hostile's whom manage to get within my PPC's minimum range. However, that is all they are really used for-close defence.

For general purpose brawling they run waaaayyy to hot. Beyond hot. Scorching hot. Even with 18 DHS.

I also utilise some LPLs on my Atlas. That said, the short range and the high heat and tonnage are making me want to swap them out for ER Large Lasers and more DHS.

And then there is my Jenner. It has 6 SPL and im using it for ambushes. However it does run insanely hot and I need to get DHS in there to make it work.

Overall however I do feel that they need a buff.

[RetroActive]

Roland, on 28 July 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Pulse lasers are generally inferior to their standard laser counterparts.