304 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

When you change a core system such as this in such a way previous purchases are rendered null and void, you should remove said unlocks and purchases and refund the cost, allowing players to adapt and spend under the new system.

Edited by DV McKenna, 30 July 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[Gallowglas]

Simply put, weapon modules need to be more nuanced than just increased range. We need modules that increase damage at the expense of range, modules that decrease recycle at the cost of damage, etc. This would make use of those modules a lot more interesting.

[DAEDALOS513]

Sudden, on 30 July 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

I THINK the module system is good. thank you

Elaborate? I see from the number of posts you are relatively new and probably don't have the hours grinded and cbills spent on mastering mechs and buying modules. The least you can do is grace us with your reasoning of why this is a good change?

You must be an arty/air strike spammer is my thinking..

Clint Steel, on 30 July 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

For some of those complaining keep in mind that modules are all something that the "noob" isn't going to have access to at all, so even having one slot gives you an "unfair" advantage against them.

Friend, with ELO balancing we aren't going to be playing against NOOBS. Also, just because we are all in the same nerf'd boat, doesn't make this change OK.

[ColoKid]

This for every mech I have looked at so far, I had the Improved Artillery Strike and Improved Air Strike installed before the patch, I go to the lab, in the modules area and I see in my consumables slots, one slot has my Improved Air Strike the other is empty, I look at the "available consumables" all are red telling me there are no slots available. I look at the two items I had installed before the patch and both say below them that they are installed.

My Advanced Artillery Strike is now showing in the right slot area so I can not select auto refill or change it if I chose to.

[Kraven Kor]

Enhanced Zoom, Target Info Gathering, and Advanced Sensor Range on 1 Mech (most of them, at least) or bust.

Not Playing ™

[Clint Steel]

DAEDALOS513, on 30 July 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Friend, with ELO balancing we aren't going to be playing against NOOBS. Also, just because we are all in the same nerf'd boat, doesn't make this change OK.

You must not be playing single drops, I regularly get dropped with good and bad alike.

[Deathlike]

This system... while well-intentioned in some ways, is severely lacking. Let me address them bit by bit, by the different sections (just 3):

1) Mech Modules - By design, there are some modules are far more powerful than others, like Radar Deprivation (#1) and Seismic Sensor (#2), while many of the other older modules are limited in utility (like Target Decay for missiles). That by design is causing a disproportionate amount of usage, especially at higher levels of play.

What is worse is that it doesn't differentiate mechs in terms of ANY sort of role warfare.

For instance, you may want Light mechs to be more sensor oriented. Well, the current system allows ANY mech to take the most popular sensors and stuff it into their mech after mastery (which is the 2 listed). At no point where using some of the other "underwhelming" sensor options like "360 Retention" or ":Target Info Gathering" come sinto play. So, while you "believe" it will diversify roles, you're just putting the best modules at the top, and not properly "balancing" them in terms of usefulness to its competitors.

What's also problematic is that this system broke the original purpose of the Jenner-K in the original/previous system. Had someone taken any care or thought to this, it would have been addressed, but it isn't the case. Same for something like the Stalker-4N, where there's no defining characteristic of which you COULD have used the new module system for to differentiate itself from the other Stalker variants. So, this is more indicative of the balance process as a whole... or lack thereof.

Anyways, there needs to be an expansion of the mech modules idea in some way, like something proposed like Asmodeus Heng's idea to expand it further.. in some logical context instead of the current design.

2) Weapon Modules - I hope you're paying close attention to this, but please how are you justifying a module like the Flamer module that buffs range by 1m per level? How about the Clan Flamer module with 2m per level? Does this make sense to anyone?

Here's a quick list of modules that favor the system:
AMS Range - reacting faster
AMS Overload - another AMS booster module
NARC - obvious benefits, no downsides
AC5 - low heat, more range
AC10 - same as AC5
AC20 - same as AC5
Streaks - negligible loss of lock of time for extended range (if you're using cooldown to reduce DPS, you're wasting your time)
MG - small benefit, despite being affected by the COF at the "longer range"

Here's a quick list of weapon modules that don't benefit:
Most energy based weapons - too little range for a tad too much heat (it is debatable with clan modules when the Targeting Computer is technically a "better option")
SRM 2/4/6 - It's clumsy as an idea, since having one "SRM booster module" seems more appropriate.
LBX10 - Increasing optimal range DOES NOT help the weapon. Think about the practicality, let alone the theory behind that.

Pretty much, the weapon modules are "out of whack" between "benefits" and "drawbacks". Try something else like lowering range for better heat or duration or some clever variation that doesn't handicap the player or give a "joke" of a boost or "too good of a benefit" that has minimal drawbacks.

3) Consumables - While expanding this, I don't think you paid ANY attention to the Team Tourney you hosted. It used to be a no-brainer for a competitive player to put it at least Arty/Airstrike on any given mech, and have the second module (when mastered on something like a Stalker) to be something like Radar Deprivation or the other arty you didn't take.

While expanding this "helps", it doesn't "work" when you make ALL OF THE MECHS carry 2. While some players benefit in different ways, others will see the effects of arguably the most powerful of modules in action. This changes doesn't deter the idea at all... if anything, it REINFORCES the idea that you have to get competitive to a degree to win. This has quite a bit of undesirable consequences... despite it making UAV more useful for Lights.. it's just another reason to stack an Arty/Airstrike to go with the masses of Heavies and Assaults that take them at will.

In any case, I would hope you seriously read and seriously THINK HARD AND LONG about the consequences of a change... especially at the higher levels of play. It's literally just 4 common modules with 0 to 1 weapon modules in use... which is PERFECTLY REFLECTIVE of the state of each module that is made available. It's just sad really, because in trying to create more diversity (and sad C-bill sinks), there is far LESS diversity in module usage than there was before.

Also, your list of mechs affected has two errors... one of them serious and one of them that went unreported.

The Banshee-3E got an additional weapon slot... for some reason (has 3 instead of 2).

The Catapult-A1 has 1 more Mech Module slot by default, than the Catapult-A1 Champion. There's something obviously wrong with this.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 July 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[Thecure]

Weapon modules are not worth their space and we got too few mech module slots.

[joker1974]

Don't like it. Gimme back my 12 million, just purchased 2 modules last week. Oh, and also the 100 USD, you can have your clan mechs back.

In short: Ffuck you. This change is uncalled for.

[MasterBLB]

Dear dev team
The sad truth is it's not an improvement,but downgrade.
You took back away modules we liked to use and needed them,instead allowing unfun artillery/airstrike/coolant spam and gave us useless weapon modules.

Please reconsider to rollback the change (I mean,the number of mech modules).Then implement module system as follows:
Consumables - one and ONLY one slot.One is enough for each role to equip module-of-choice (UAV for scouts,coolant for hot mechs,artillery OR(important!) air strike for others,not both)
Mech modules - as before the change.Well,increase minimum number of modules to 2 (poor Stalkers/Jenner F),3'rd one would be given with master efficiency.Some mechs had 3(4 with master) which was good.
Weapon modules - the problem here is they are total crap,perhaps with an exception of AMS Overload and Improved NARC whose show signs of usefulness.Anyway,2 is a good number,perhaps another one could be added after obtaining master efficiency.
The system I propose is way better:

• By separating consumables it allows every mech to take something to battle BUT prevents spam of it (ex 3x coolant for energy boats,or Artillery+Airstrike).Just one choice is perfect.
  
• Restoring good old number of module mechs will allow (by separating consumables and thus giving space) to equip some seldom-used modules whose are somewhat useful (Hill Climb let's say) but they were inferior to main ones/consumables.And still well-known and liked configurations will be viable.
  
• As for weapon modules,well...for now even one slot is too much for most of mechs.You have to scrap all existing weapon modules except AMS Overload and Improved NARC then reinvent them from scratch.Only then we can talk seriously about them.But,as for now - 2(3 with master efficiency) is a good start for mechs heavily oriented to direct combat,support ones could have 1(2 with master) - assuming in the future there will be some worth-taking weapon modules.

And here few examples of useful weapon modules:
Improved Gauss Capacitors - Charging Gauss Rifles takes half of the usual time,and the energy is not dissipated if not fired soon after.Gauss Rifles have 100% chance for explosion when destroyed and deal 30 damage to internal structure.
Productive Gauss Capacitors - You can charge up to three Gauss Rifles at once,but charge time is increased by 25%.

Improved Streak Guidance System - Streak missiles have better chance to aim at torso (restore old flight path when central and side torsos were mainly aimed at,before change)
Bigger Streak Warheads - Streak missiles deal 2.5 damage per missile.Max range is reduced to 220m.
Faster Streak Lock-On - Streak missiles require half of the usual time to get lock on target.
ECCM Streak - Streak missiles are able to lock-on highlighted target even under influence of enemy ECM,though they still suffer longer lock-on time penalty.

Bigger SRM Warheads - SRM missiles deal 2.65 damage per missile,but their max range is reduced to 220m.
SRM TAG Guidance - SRM missiles can be guided to hit chosen location by designing it by TAG,but their speed is reduced by 40 m/s

PPC Capacitor - Allows to charge each PPC to deal extra 5 points of damage and increases generated heat by 5 points.(Adds similar to gauss charge mechanic.Press and hold weapon group button to charge all PPCs in that group,then release it to shoot more powerfull projectile.If you overcharge you wil be given 5*PPC_number_in_weapon_group extra heat and you have to charge again.You can still just tap fire button to shoot ordinary PPC projectile.Possible issue - what if PPC and Gauss are linked in the same group?)
EMP improvement - PPC bolts disable ECM device by additional 3s,and the mech hit have info gathering slowed down by 15%.

Bigger LRM Warheads - LRM missiles deal 1.3 damage per missile,but their speed is reduced to 150 m/s.
Better LRM Concentration - LRM have better chance to hit torso.Time to get lock is increased by 25%.
ECCM LRMs - LRM missiles keep Artemis bonus for ECM-covered target,and does not suffer increased lock time against it.

LB-X Structural Weakness Analyzer - LB-X pellets have doubled chance to cause critical hit (and thus increased damage) to component stripped off armor.
LB-X Spread Control System - LB-X gains 3 shooting modes - Concentrated (spread reduced by 25%),Normal (as it is now) and Wide (spread increased by 30%).This would require to add appropriate option to toggle modes in controls mapping.

UAC Improved Feed Mechanism - Decreases chance to jam by 50%.Unjam requires 50% more time.
UAC Fast Feed Mechanism - Gives chance to shoot another extra bullet(2 total) in ultra mode during cycle period.Jam chance is increased by 150%.

AC Armor Weakness Analyzer - AC rounds have 10% chance to deal 20% of theirs damage to internal structure instead of armor.(Ex AC20 round hits armored CT and deals 16 damage to armor and 4 to internal structure)
AC HE Rounds - AC rounds gets additional 10% damage as splash in 2m radius,but their speed is reduced by 20%.

TAG Heat Designation - Each 0.1s you highlight the target caused it to keep TAG designation for that period of time when you stop tagging.(Ex you put TAG a mech for 10s then stopped.Tagged mech should be considered designated for 10s before fade away.This applies only to bonus to hit by LRMs,designated mech visibility should be treated unchanged)

Improved Flamer Fuel - Flamers deal 30% more damage and 50% more heat to target.
Thermite Flamer Rounds - Flamer can shoot at 200m max distance a round which sticks to mechs,causing usual flamer effect for 3s.Adds 3s cooldown to flamers.

Improved Lasers Heat Management - Allows to fire one laser more before activating ghost heat (so it'd be 7 for mediums and 3 for larges)
Improved Laser Lens - Lasers applies 15% heat they generated to target hit.

Continuous Pulse Beam Generator - Damage,heat generation and beam duration are halved,but pulse lasers have no cooldown.
Improved Lasers Concentration - All pulse lasers in weapon group are considered as one beam when determining critical hit damage amount.Allows pulse lasers to score critical hits.

Depleted Uranium AP Bullets - MG bullets have 50% chance to ignore armor and deal damage to internal structure,but critical hit chance is reduced by 75%.
Multibarreled Machine Guns - MGs have doubled fire rate and spread.
Guidance System - MGs have limited capability to track and better aim at locked-on target.(If crosshair does not point to targeted enemy MGs can aim in say 25o angle cone at the target,and they automatically add adjustment to hit the moving target pointed by crosshair)

The proposed modules are way more interesting than existing ones,don't you agree?
Anyway,the goal here is that each weapon group should have 2-3 cool and useful modules (so one will think like 'damn it,these weapon mods for LRMs are so cool,but I can't take all of them.And what's about my support weapons?'),while mechs have 1-2 (+1 with master efficiency) weapon module slots.
The best ideas are weapon mods whose add to them some unique abilities changing them significantly,like proposed PPC Capacitor,LB-X Spread Control System,SRM TAG Guidance or Thermite Flamer Rounds - that's the most desired direction when inventing anew weapon modules.

Hope you'll take the above into strong consideration,especially corrected module system.

[donut overdose]

Last week I paid $55 for 3 stromcrows. They had 2 mech slots. Now they have 1. Are you kidding? I spent millions of in-game credits to buy modules and now I can use only 1? What a dumb move. Return the mech slot I paid for!

[Sandslice]

Just a shotgun pattern of ideas. These are based on my opinion that the system is fine per se (except for the JR7-K, which needs a buff,) but that it has room for expansion in order to make it good. Some of these won't be TT lore-friendly, but scrub that for now.

1. On the weapon modules:

Spoiler

Repeating: +range for +heat = bad. It's a marginal situational benefit with a constant drawback and a substantial double cost to entry (1100 -> ?? GXP + 3Mcb.)

There are exceptions: AMS, eNarc, and MG have no drawback; SSRM is a slight time penalty; and most ballistics have inherently low heat so that the heat penalty is of minimal impact. Even then, the benefits (except AMS and eNarc) are far too small for the cost.

Suggestions: Raise the range buffs to 6% per level and scrub the heat. This means that a 5/5 Large Laser will get a 30% (+135m) range buff to 585m - not quite the 675 of the isERLL. Meanwhile, the isERLL would get 877,5m, nearly matching the base range of its Clan counterpart. Naturally, the Clan versions should get a smaller benefit... 1.5% per level, perhaps; basically what they get now, just also with scrubbed heat since Clan 'Mechs already run hot.

Introduce other types of modules.
Speed Modules: For non-lasers, increases projectile speed. For lasers, decreases burn-time. (And decreased burn-time for extra heat would arguably be a good tradeoff.)

UAC Unjammer: Decreases chance and duration of UAC jams.

PPC Capacitor: Your PPCs become charge-up weapons like Gauss and can no longer be snap-fired; but they deal +20% damage.

Crit Seeker: Raises critical chance by 5% for LBX, Machine Gun, and Flamer. (No ranks.)

Metallic Slugs: Decreases AC range by 10%, increases AC Impulse by x%.

Anti-Armour AC/2: AC/2 deals +25% damage to armour.

Those are just ideas.

2. On the consumables:

Spoiler

Since all 'Mechs have two and people are worried about All The Arty, we need more variety - and interesting variety, if possible.

ECM Pod: Basically like a UAV - except instead of tagging everything within 240, it drops a temporary ECM bubble.

Ghost Target: If you've played Sniper Elite, it's similar to the ghost image that you leave behind when you break LOS on an aggro enemy. Here, you spawn a Ghost Target at a target position; it fools all sensors and looks real to all visual modes, but dissipates if hit with weapon fire.

Remote Sensor: A weaker version of UAV that lasts longer; placed at a location, it works as a Seismic Sensor centered on a target location for 2 minutes, and conveys its information to its creator.

Minefield: Lays a damaging Minefield within 15 meters of a target location; a 'Mech passing through an affected area consumes the Minefield and receives leg damage. Minefields arm after 6 seconds; if triggered before that, they are wasted (so no throwing them under a Dire Pickle for easy boomage; you need strategy.)

Hot Spot: Lays a Hot Spot at a location. This generates proximity-based heat on all 'Mechs within 150 meters, with 'Mechs near the Hot Spot receiving more heat. Lasts 15 seconds after it's laid.

Again, just ideas.

3. Sundries

Spoiler

These are random ideas I'm throwing out there.
-The Command Console: This can receive its distinction from Targeting Computers with a simple change - it adds two Omni module slots.

-Enhanced Cockpit: Based on the Dual Cockpit. This weighs one ton and occupies one crit, and adds one Omni module slot. As it's a cockpit, it must be mounted in the head, and cannot be mounted at the same time as the Command Console. Not available to Clans.

[AntharPrime]

Bad change, just put it back.

[DaddyP1G]

Multiple mechs are now WORTHLESS. Jenner-K worth in Comp drops for the extra module.. Now, no reason to not take a D

[Sandslice]

donut overdose, on 30 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Last week I paid $55 for 3 stromcrows. They had 2 mech slots. Now they have 1. Are you kidding? I spent millions of in-game credits to buy modules and now I can use only 1? What a dumb move. Return the mech slot I paid for!

By the same perspective: last week you paid $55 for 3 Stormcrows. They had 2 consumable slots. Now they still have 2, plus a weapon slot and a 'Mech slot.

(Hint: it's more accurate to say that all 'Mechs had 1-3 Omni slots, which were redistributed into some combination of weapon, consumable, and 'Mech; and anyone saying otherwise based on their use of those slots as purely 'Mech...)

[DAEDALOS513]

Sandslice, on 30 July 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

By the same perspective: last week you paid $55 for 3 Stormcrows. They had 2 consumable slots. Now they still have 2, plus a weapon slot and a 'Mech slot.

(Hint: it's more accurate to say that all 'Mechs had 1-3 Omni slots, which were redistributed into some combination of weapon, consumable, and 'Mech; and anyone saying otherwise based on their use of those slots as purely 'Mech...)

What are you babbling on about? He had 2 MECH slots, now he has ONE. That's all he and most of US care about. Gaining weapon and consumable slots means NOTHING!

PS. some mechs had up to FOUR omni slots, not 1-3...

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 30 July 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

ColoKid, on 30 July 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

This for every mech I have looked at so far, I had the Improved Artillery Strike and Improved Air Strike installed before the patch, I go to the lab, in the modules area and I see in my consumables slots, one slot has my Improved Air Strike the other is empty, I look at the "available consumables" all are red telling me there are no slots available. I look at the two items I had installed before the patch and both say below them that they are installed.

My Advanced Artillery Strike is now showing in the right slot area so I can not select auto refill or change it if I chose to.

You should show an "invalid module loadout" waring. Go to configure, save the mech, exit the game, log back in, and all your modules should return to inventory. Then you just have to reinstall them in the desired chassis.

Jody

[Seelenlos]

For the NEG-Opinion I can fill it in one Word:

AWFUL!

Return and rethink.

[Sandslice]

DAEDALOS513, on 30 July 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

What are you babbling on about? He had 2 MECH slots, now he has ONE. That's all he and most of US care about. Gaining weapon and consumable slots means NOTHING!

PS. some mechs had up to FOUR omni slots, not 1-3...

You can make the argument that they were omni slots, but you cannot make the argument that they were 'Mech slots. People were using consumables - even favouring them - before the change. I'm sure some people were using AMS and eNarc - and even some of TheB33f's videos clearly showed him using weapon modules (eg, MG on his DapperJager) in those omni slots.

So no. I can't accept the idea that "most of US only care about" 'Mech modules.

As for four: no 'Mech had four base module slots; four was only a result of the few that had 3 (and there were only six of those) getting their mastery slot.

[Tanreh]

If you want to have a feedback, I can give you one.

I feel cheated by this new module system....

I mastered several of my mechs (have 62 at the moment) especially to be able to run one more module. So far, I never used consumables (I don't feel like arty or air strike belong to MECH warrior) and never took any weapon modules. (Why would I take something that is actually in most cases worsening my mech instead of improving it?) The penalties for using them is by far greater than the benefits.

Now you changed the system and even if there are more slots...actually there are less.

Before on a normal mech I could run 2(3 if mastered) modules. As there are many useful modules, it was already a specific choice which module NOT to take. Surprisingly it was always a module you are naming now mech module.

The consumable will never be used by me...I mean.... *sarcasm on* Hey, its great we have some artillery back we can get over radio to rain down death on our enemies....oh...you mean I have to buy the batteries for the radio and I can call them only two times?....I am sitting in a mech with a fusion reactor...I can broadcast all day ....no?...So I have to buy the arty projectiles for them to drop...also no? dang..*sarcasm off*
This whole idea of consumables is strange to me...[Personal opinion]

*sarcasm on* Weapon modules....great..I can actually improve my weaponry...aeh...What?...only range increase of about 0.5 % and I have to pay more for it than for a light mech?...Aeh...wierd...ah...I see the benefit is the additional heat....aehm...no...on second thought...I think you are a con artist...I won't buy it....

So now you are actually trying to force me to buy those stuff by changing the slots and telling me I have to use 4 of 5 slots for consumables and penalties?

Nope...Sir...I beg your respect but I will sooner run a mech with 4 empty slots than with this crap. Have a nice day *sarcasm off*


Seriously...this change is very negative in my opinion...I spent a lot of money into this game and at the moment it is not improving but the opposite. I restrained myself from buying anything more at the moment and until I see that there is the will and fact of inprovement, I will not spend additional money in it. With this change my play time per day is also significantly reduced as the rewards I worked for several months for (additional slots filled with modules of MY choice) is not only taken away from me...the joy of playing this game has also been greatly diminished.

Please change the system by either

a.) rollback this new system

b.) make useful modules for weapons

c.) Don't force the majority of players (I say this because when I read the comments before, most of the people don't seem to like the new system) to use modules of your choice.