1263 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

Adiuvo, on 29 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

The people whining about PPFLD do. MY SINGLE COMPONENT DAMAGE OMG WHY CANT I TORSO TWIST.

It's a shame that this idea is even being considered.

Who said "torso twist" the only way to play a MechWarrior game?

[soapyfrog]

So disappointing to have a glimmer of hope hearing Russ talk about maybe increasing PPC cooldown to 5 or 6s, and then see another overcomplicated, arcane limiting mechanic coming down the pipe.

I'd rather see PPCs become a burst weapon that spread damage significantly than see either of the things Paul is suggesting. Especially not the first thing with the weapon locking that would suck. And the reducing the projectile speed would just make PPCs seem lame. A Particle Cannon whose projectile flies more slowly than gas-projectile weapons?? Would be very jarring.

[ProtoformX]

Wow, that is extremely over-engineered. Especially for a problem that isn't a real problem.

[Roadkill]

All that will do is welcome in the new PPC/AC10 meta.

[LegoPirate]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Who said "torso twist" the only way to play a MechWarrior game?

thanks for the new sig boss

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

One thing this game certainly doesn't needs anymore are even MORE restrictions.

Everytime you threw a new mech onto the market the very next day you're announcing some weird (and far from intuitive) restrictions.

If it wouldn't be for ghost heat the IS could easily field quad PPC + Gauss RS' against that dual PPC + Gauss Direwhales.

It's already challenging enough to combine PPC's and Gauss at the moment.
No need to nerf it even harder (after you've upped the PPC heat so much and already lowered the travel speed multiple times).

[Don Ino]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Who said "torso twist" the only way to play a MechWarrior game?

do you even mechwarrior?

[stjobe]

Stop PGI, just please for the love of BattleTech STOP!

You can't fix the game this way.

The problem you're trying so desperately to fix is INSTANT CONVERGENCE of all a 'mechs weapons into a single point, which simply breaks the armor system (which was designed for spread damage).

You can fix this several ways:

1. Don't allow weapons to fire simultaneously; implement a short global cooldown. That way instant convergence won't mean all damage applies to the same location instantly.

2. Don't allow perfect accuracy; implement some sort of variable aim-points individually for each weapon, e.g. motion-based cone of fire. That way instant convergence won't mean all damage applies to the same location instantly.

3. Don't allow front-loaded damage; make all weapons spread their damage over time. That way instant convergence won't mean all damage applies to the same location instantly.

Or, you can do it the hard way:

4. Re-implement your HSR solution so it can take non-instant convergence into account.

Either way, you're not going to fix the root problem with more and more complicated and complex "solutions" to individual weapons or weapon combinations. You're going to have to bite this bullet sooner or later; I'd recommend sooner.

[Skadi]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Who said "torso twist" the only way to play a MechWarrior game?

If you want to sit there and just eat entire mech alphas instead of spreading the damage be my guest, but dont let your lack of ******* common sense drive the games balance.

[TercieI]

Complications on top of complications?

A thorough revisit of all weapons based on projectile speeds, cycle times and heat is a better answer than a complicated band-aid (this) on top of a complicated band-aid (gauss charge) on top of a complicated band-aid (ghost heat) on top of...you get the idea. At least, I hope you do.

Seriously, change everything if you have to but this multi-layered counter-intuitive "solving" of one symptom at a time just points to how bad the disease is. All this will do is bring PPC/AC5(or 10) back ahead of PPC/Gauss and then you'll be no further ahead than where you are now. What then? Another complicated band-aid?

Edited by Terciel1976, 29 July 2014 - 04:04 PM.

[MuonNeutrino]

Both of these ideas are bad, in my opinion.

For the first, we do not need any more overly complicated finicky weapon mechanics. Making the guns a pain in the ass to use isn't the right idea. If you want to specifically nerf the gauss+PPC combo, link the weapons with the ghost heat system; since it takes the extra heat from the gun with the largest modifier, firing 2ppc+gauss hits you with ghost heat like you fired 3 PPCs. I don't like ghost heat any more than the next person, but at least this is a simple solution that doesn't leave people randomly wondering why their guns suddenly don't work.

The second solution is even worse, because it's an overnerf that hits the wrong target. PPCs, *by themselves*, are fine. Mechs that use PPCs *not* in combination with ballistics do not need to be nerfed. Additionally, if you hit the speed of the PPC so hard, people will just go back to pairing it with the ac10 or ac20. Finally, PPCs that travel that slowly are not going to be usable at their proper range, simply because you won't be able to *hit* any moving targets with such a slow projectile. ER PPCs especially are supposed to be long range weapons.

Ultimately if you put a gun to my head and told me to pick one of these two, I would choose the first, since at least it hits the proper target of nerfing *just* the ppc+gauss combo. That said, and no offense intended, but these are both bad solutions. The fact that more and more bandaids have to keep being added on top of ghost heat is an indication that ghost heat, as a system, is not doing the job it was supposed to. There have been any number of systems proposed themed around power draw and whatnot that handle the problem of limiting alpha strikes (pinpoint and otherwise) without allowing these sorts of edge cases, *please please* consider implementing one of them.

[dragnier1]

No to ppc projectile change. People will just move back to ppc+ac5/10 like when the gauss charge mechanic was first introduced. As for the system that was worked, simplify it to ppc or gauss firing seperately, so you don't have to check how many ppcs or gauss a mech has. The delay of 1sec might be about right.

Heffay, on 29 July 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Just fix convergence. Torsos/head have fixed (set by user) convergence, arms are variable. If you can get the enemy to the right distance and can time the shot speeds right, enjoy your 40 pt alpha. But that will only work at a very specific range and require really good timing to pull off.

This will not solve the problem if weapons are arm mounted. Direwolf?

Edited by dragnier1, 29 July 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[kuangmk11]

Increase the cooldown on the gauss even more and give the PPC a small cone of fire/twist.

Edited by kuangmk11, 29 July 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[KableGuy]

IMHO I think we should ONLY be allowed to use harsh language with no swearing allowed and the only 2 weapons we have access too are a water pistol and a nerf gun that we can only fire from 500 meters away and it has a 10 min reload time and does .5 damage evenly spread across every component.

[Jin Ma]

ever thought of changing the Clan PPC(1500 currently) ballistic travel speed to desync it with Gauss (speed 2000)?

It would be very cool if you guys made Clan PPCs have a completely different firing mechanic. It already has the splash, so why not carry through and make it more similar to MW2 PPCs(the ball of electricity) of course not THAT slow, but i think it would be cool if it were closer to that version to distinguish it from current IS PPCs, with the added bonus of solving our 2ppc/2gauss problem.



Maybe bring the clanPPC speed down to be the same as AC20 (720)


Or conversely you guys could try changing the Clan gauss behavior so that it is completely different from the IS version

you guys changed the weapon behavior with the LRMs so i don't see why not apply that same method of having a large distinction between IS PPC and cPPC

Edited by Jin Ma, 29 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Kibble]

PGI. You want to keep new player and current player retention. This locking mechanic will not do that as it is, as many have already said, overly compicated.

The slowing of the speeds I am fine with.

[Zyllos]

From the responses I got from my comment, it seems that torso twisting is over powered.

Too many players don't understand the entire armor system was built with the idea that weapons do not hit single locations when fired together. Hence why torso twisting + FLD is considered the "right" way to play by some players.

[InMidnightClad]

For the love of god please only implement the change to projectile speed. I've recently gone through the ordeal of trying to walk a new player through this game. It was a complete joke. I've never needed Visual **** and video tutorials to explain to someone how to Get ready to play a game until I started playing this game. In lieu of yet another set of hart to explain exceptions to the rules, please take the high road and make PPCs a high skill/ lead time weapon.

[JHackworth]

this is a terrible idea; please don't do this. It violates every UX design principle of making things undiscoverable and unknowable. And, seriously, there enough ****** UX design thinking in this game already. No one will be able to tell how much time has actually passed before PPCs can be fired; it'll just make the both weapons an exercise in frustration.

And, don't slow down PPCs, it's already slow. It's a freaking participle projection--a lightning bolt--why does it go slower than a ballistic round? Makes no sense.

If you want to add cost to disincentivize high-alpha combos, I'd be much more in favor of a 'capacitor/energy' indicator--these would recharge rapidly but draw more for PPCs/Gauss than lasers or ACs.

[Nauht]

No to both.

We already pay for the weapon combo in weight and heat.
Those that keep getting slammed by the PPC/GR combo are the ones that keep presenting themselves as targets.... they just want an easy mode to lumber in to alpha.

But if you must have one then nerf the combo - single weapon nerfs a definite no-no as it affects that weapon for all mechs that use it in different customisations. Single PPC users will be penalised and when they realise that PPCs suck, will just be pigeon-holed into even more cookie cutter laser builds.

No to further dumbing down of this game to cater for the lowest skillset.