1258 replies to this topic

[POWR]

meteorol, on 30 July 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

Do you realize that said 50% reduction will pretty much cut down the PPC to ac20 speed? You call that "very fast" for a weapon that has a 90m min range and causes 10 heat per shot? About as fast as a weapon with a 270m optimum range? It would make the PPC the second slowest projectile weapon, with nothing but the 270m brawling ac20 being slower.

You call that "very fast"? What is slow in your opinion if i might ask?

No, I don't, because AC20 is half that speed again.

[GalaxyBluestar]

again overcomplicating crap. wanna nerf yet again? try doubling ppc cooldown. 10sec wait is painfull the perfect balance to the best performing weapon. increases interception time for brawlers, ruins ppc as a spam weapon, means gauss ppc combo can be shot... for one time only and wait 10 seconds. so then it becomes tactical make the shots count. if you really must nerf ppcs...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 30 July 2014 - 04:16 AM.

[Judge Redeemer]

Or add recoil when firing more than one ppc according to lore ppc should have a recoil.

[Rasc4l]

Hi Paul and thanks for asking the players for input.

I just wanted to quote heimdelight here who basically said everything there is to the matter. So no more weird mechanics, dropping PPC speed even to half is ok.

This forces players to lead their shots more i.e. they have to adapt with SKILL. With that weird mechanic, the adaptation is not skill, it's just "oh yeah, I can't do this anymore, well $hit".

heimdelight, on 29 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm really disliking any more weapon combo restrictions. It continues to remove customization from the game, in the same way Ghost Heat did. Weapons affected by Ghost Heat are literally not viable. These mechanics seem to make them go down the same road.

Please, do not lockdown any weapons. That is a terrible idea.

Slowing down the projectile speed is the obvious way to go. I'm not sure about 750m/s, maybe like 950m/s. Anything else is very short of overly nerfing the weapons being used against any loadouts, period.

[meteorol]

POWR, on 30 July 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

No, I don't, because AC20 is half that speed again.

What? As per smurfy, AC20 moves at 650 m/s.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Already late to this thread. I just hope Paul reads StJobe's post early on.

PhoenixFire55, on 30 July 2014 - 12:41 AM, said:

Sure, lets forbid firing Gauss+PPCs at the same time. Lets also forbid firing more than one AC same time. And while we are at it, lets also forbid firing more than 2 lasers at the same time. As for the final coup de grace to this game, lets forbid firing more than one missile launcher in 5 seconds.

Sounds reasonable to me, just like your suggesions.
[/sarcasm]

Actually, the best thing that could happen to this game is enforced chain firing. Would fix every single problem that currently exists. for the most part.

You can only poptart one weapon, it's a forced fix for convergence, since you can't fire more than one weapon. It stops massed LRMs. It stops the Dire Whale.

It's honestly perfect.

[Deathz Jester]

Wouldn't of had to come up with this overly complex system if customization had been done better.

[Karl Streiger]

Funny thing is - you have such terrible horror system called ghost heat - and instead of using it
(1 Gauss - 1 PPC = 2 PPC = nothing
(1 Gauss plus 2 PPCs = 3 PPCs
(2 Gauss plus 2 PPCs = 4 PPCs)

We get another complicated "fix"

Hey the Double Gauss and Double PPC is so scarry - it did cause havoc and destruction on this game for years.....months....weeks - so the Dire Wolf - has to change its weapons from 2 Gauss and 2 ER-PPCs towards...hm 2 Ultra 10 and 2 ER-PPCs....and of course people that have already problems with 2 Gauss and 2 ER-PPCs will complain again.

[Li Song]

My initial impression is that which many have already mentioned.

The mechanic is a complicated band-aid that will again be difficult for new players to understand. The complicated argument is backed by the fact that the command chair post explicitly stated that it's difficult to implement. It is not intuitive to understand in the heat of battle why you suddenly can't fire your BFG. Also new players will have no idea where to look for such information. It will likely result in new player frustration and reduced player retention.

Many good proposals have already been made, convergence is one of them and a frequently repeated one (in different forms is) is inter-alpha micro-recoil.

I proposed one simple change that would add a small offset to each projectile in an alpha strike so that at 400 meters they would not all land on the same component. The offset is in the form of a recoil of 0.2 degrees which is very low but still effective at spreading the damage.

The system is completely passive, it is intuitive to new players, affects all pin-point front-loaded alpha strikes, is very easy to implement and has a negligible computational cost.

More info here: http://mwomercs.com/...nalty-proposal/

I urge you to consider some of these proposals instead of this new mechanic.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

I hate the PPC Gauss combo as much as the next person but this is just an overly complicated mechanic and it seems PPC will get the short end of the stick in either solution.

PPC are the hottest weapons in game already there's no reason to reduce the projectile speed of a weapon that has a huge heat out put especially with the ghost heat mechanic that limits PPC use.. Not only that the new player experience is going to be just as terrible when it comes to using the PPC/Gauss combo I have to agree with StJobe here the issues is perfect convergence. which needs to be addressed sooner then later.

in either case my solution would be to triple the Gauss rifles cycle time remove 2 rounds from the ammo bringing it back down to TT standards (8 rounds per ton it never needed 10 in the first place and still doesn't) i feel this would be a much more suitable and effective balance

[pwnface]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Already late to this thread. I just hope Paul reads StJobe's post early on.



Actually, the best thing that could happen to this game is enforced chain firing. Would fix every single problem that currently exists. for the most part.

You can only poptart one weapon, it's a forced fix for convergence, since you can't fire more than one weapon. It stops massed LRMs. It stops the Dire Whale.

It's honestly perfect.

Your solution is to make everyone shoot one weapon at a time? Really?? I wouldn't play this game if I couldn't shoot more than weapon at once and I'm sure many others would hate this as well.

Kodiak Jorgensson, on 30 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

I hate the PPC Gauss combo as much as the next person but this is just an overly complicated mechanic and it seems PPC will get the short end of the stick in either solution.

PPC are the hottest weapons in game already there's no reason to reduce the projectile speed of a weapon that has a huge heat out put especially with the ghost heat mechanic that limits PPC use.. Not only that the new player experience is going to be just as terrible when it comes to using the PPC/Gauss combo I have to agree with StJobe here the issues is perfect convergence. which needs to be addressed sooner then later.

in either case my solution would be to triple the Gauss rifles cycle time remove 2 rounds from the ammo bringing it back down to TT standards (8 rounds per ton it never needed 10 in the first place and still doesn't) i feel this would be a much more suitable and effective balance

Tripling the recycle time seems a little drastic, it would reduce the effective DPS of the Gauss to abysmal levels. Maybe add a second or two at most.

[WeaselWily]

Slow down the PPC projectile. The other solutions are way too complicated.

[Thorn Hallis]

Most people dislike option 1 but are ok with option 2.

Result: Option 1 will be implemented.

[Fut]

Jabilo, on 29 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

First thought: Too complicated.

THIS!!!

So much randomness going on here, it's becoming confusing.
the heat system to have penalties before reaching 100% heat, and all of these little problems will solve themselves.

Jabilo, on 29 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

First thought: Too complicated.

THIS!!!

So much randomness going on here, it's becoming confusing.
the heat system to have penalties before reaching 100% heat, and all of these little problems will solve themselves.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

PGI after few month anounce:

- There will be a new MELEE mech weapon.

Spoiler

Community after MLEE weapon update:
- That is too OP. Need nerf!

PGI:
- O'kay, we'll nerf some lazors.

[Widowmaker1981]

dont know where i weigh in on the gauss + PPC limiting idea.. its a bit complex.. if you must nerf the combo, id just link gauss and PPC ghost heat. At least that doesn't add an extra confusing mechanic.

If you halve the speed of PPCs i will never equip one again.. at that speed it becomes a 500m or less weapon, and at that range 6xERML is a hell of a lot better, the same weight and easier to use.

im mostly playing clans now, and find the ER-PPCs to be too hot to use unless they are your only energy weapon (pairs of them). Im already mostly only using C-ERML and C-ERLL, with this change i would literally sell every single C-ERPPC i own.

Also, this would be quite a big indirect nerf to Innersphere.. imo one of the biggest disadvantages the Clans have is the lack of a standard PPC, and if you nerf the PPC to mothball status that disadvantage becomes moot..

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 30 July 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Tek]

how about you fix the dire wolf instead?

[TercieI]

That's it! You're right! It's all a feint to make ghost heat look good!

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 July 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

dont know where i weigh in on the gauss + PPC limiting idea.. its a bit complex.. if you must nerf the combo, id just link gauss and PPC ghost heat. At least that doesn't add an extra confusing mechanic.

Exactly, this'll be easy solution. But GR and PPC both need projectile speed buff and may be some DMG buff also.

Tek, on 30 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

how about you fix the dire wolf instead?

Make it stationary?
How about do not nerf DW, but instead give IS Pillager and King Crab?

Edited by Lala Satalin Deviluke, 30 July 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

pwnface, on 30 July 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Your solution is to make everyone shoot one weapon at a time? Really?? I wouldn't play this game if I couldn't shoot more than weapon at once and I'm sure many others would hate this as well.

Good? Your name is stupid anyway.

Enforced chain firing increases the amount of skill required to play and creates a situation where varied load outs aren't penalized for having weapons with different mechanics.

It increases TTK exponentially, and also makes convergence completely irrelevant.

It makes you have to think more about your shots, instead of moving around a corner or over a hill, alphaing everything, then dropping back.

I'm sorry you have a hard time with the game actually requiring real thought.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 30 July 2014 - 05:25 AM.