588 replies to this topic

[Bulletsponge0]

consumables and weapons modules have zero impact on role warefare

[Yokaiko]

Bulletsponge0, on 29 July 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

consumables and weapons modules have zero impact on role warefare

Debatable, UAV certainly livens up the spotter roles a bit.

Untill weapon mods do something useful in meaningful amounts WITHOUT DOWNSIDES christ, heat heat heat the mechs are already to damn hot. Adding heat to all of the things is asinine.

[1453 R]

I find it interesting how Nikolai managed to explain the reasoning behind the module systems changes to us without actually offering any reasoning or explanations at all. Instead, what we got is a “Piranha works in mysterious ways, just wait for The Future and all will become clear” article.

Normally, I don’t like to be that guy who just sits back and harshes a decision Piranha makes without considering the other factors behind that decision…but in this case, I can’t find a single redeeming factor to the decision that was finally made. And if I must be perfectly accurate…well, one factor in particular has soured me on this entire thing and has gotten mt to pretty much write off the entire module system as a waste of time and money.

Has anyone else noticed the one type of module slot that wasn’t touched at all by the balancing? Nobody got shorted any of them, like some ‘Mechs were shorted weapon slots and every ‘Mech was shorted ‘Mech slots? Here’s a hint – we only have three types of module slot, and I’ve already named the other two. Here’s another hint: it’s the only module slot whose contents can be directly purchased with MC.

Piranha, your consumable system is an abomination and I have, and will continue to, refuse to take part in it. I have never once purchased a consumable in either currency, I have never unlocked a consumable booster pilot skill, I have never regretted any of it. And now we have a system in which some ‘Mechs only have one weapon slot (and this is on the assumption that weapon modules will, at some point in the far-flung future, not be actively detrimental to the ‘Mech that equips them), most ‘Mechs only have one ‘Mech slot…but eeeeverybody gets two consumable slots.

And your explanation for why this decision was made doesn’t actually explain anything at all.

I was actually going to leave this alone and not raise a ruckus anywhere, or point out the fact that the “Spend ALL your MC!” modules are the ones being pushed front-and-center in this new module system, but then you had to go and “explain” everything in the most infuriating Command Chair post I’ve seen since Russ’ Apology.

Either EXPLAIN THINGS when you tell us you’re going to explain things, or say outright “we can’t tell you what-all’s going on at the moment, but when we can you’ll probably like it.” Don’t feed me a damned line and weasel-mouth your way out of actually saying anything. Come on Nik, you know better. People like you because you’re up-front and honest about stuff. I get that you can’t always be that way because job, but is this kind of crap really the best you can do?

[Pezzer]

stjobe, on 29 July 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Here's what you should have done.

This.

[Pyrrho]

stjobe, on 29 July 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Here's what you should have done.

This system you're starting to implement now is bad and you should all feel bad.

They beat themselves at their own game. They posted that breakdown in the forums, and everyone knows that PGI never listens to what goes on in the forums...

[Bulletsponge0]

Yokaiko, on 29 July 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Debatable, UAV certainly livens up the spotter roles a bit.

Untill weapon mods do something useful in meaningful amounts WITHOUT DOWNSIDES christ, heat heat heat the mechs are already to damn hot. Adding heat to all of the things is asinine.

true..UAV has a role

but weapons modules are worthless

I don't understand the reasoning behind taking away mech module slots and replacing them with weapons module slots

[Jetfire]

I would really like to see the ARTY/AIRSTRIKE CD increased. More than 3 or 4 combined used in a match by 1 side is really weird to see. I mean honestly the amount of damage some teams are dropping from the sky is ludicrous.

Additionally I would like to see ROLE specific modules and slots which reinforce them.

Also I would have likely to see the clans trade heat for a faster weapon fire cycle rather than range. They had more than enough range as is.

[Psydotek]

I just want to say thank you for announcing this on the forum instead of having to hear about it via hearsay from various "unofficial official" sources.

[Mark Brandhauber]

My feedback, too many consumables and weapon modules, not enough mech modules. In my opinion/experience it is the mech modules that count most towards giving a mech a role and not consumables (arty and air spam) or a very poor choice of weapon modules (serioulsy only range increase modules. no rate of fire, spread reduction, reduced burn time etc).If any thing there should be 2 mech modules and a third from master, the consumables and weapon modules should be the fluctuating numbers some having 1 or 2 etc.
You wanna get really role specific have it so the only consumables clan mechs can use are UAV and coolant flush, arty and air being against their honor code.
I think the devs ask the wrong part of the community before implementing these types of changes.

Edited by Mark Brandhauber, 29 July 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Bulletsponge0, on 29 July 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

true..UAV has a role

but weapons modules are worthless

I don't understand the reasoning behind taking away mech module slots and replacing them with weapons module slots

C-bill sink I imagine. Plus I REALLY like the idea less and less now I have to move 5-6 mods around per mech, with the crappy UI and all of the clicking around that entails.

I have 84 mechs? Are you friggin kidding me.

[Pekiti]

So more slots (in whatever flavor you label them) is an improvement?

Then why does my DDC have less useful slots today than it did yesterday? Less options, less chance to bring something useful along besides the inevitable Arty/Air Strike.

Weapon modules are still just as useless as they were yesterday, and I still won't be fitting any to my mechs. So how, exactly, did that improve game play for me?

I am not amused by the new module system.

[Bulletsponge0]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Here's the latest word from the Dev Team on Modules! Please tell us what you think!

We are very sorry if this has affected or will affect your preferred build of a Mech or play style, but we are always basing our decisions on what will benefit the majority of our players and secure the highly-demanded future of role-warfare.

what players, specifically, are benefiting from arty/air strike spam?

Pekiti, on 29 July 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

So more slots (in whatever flavor you label them) is an improvement?

Then why does my DDC have less useful slots today than it did yesterday? Less options, less chance to bring something useful along besides the inevitable Arty/Air Strike.

Weapon modules are still just as useless as they were yesterday, and I still won't be fitting any to my mechs. So how, exactly, did that improve game play for me?

I am not amused by the new module system.

exactly...

oooh....'mechs have "more" module slots... but do they really? since most weapons module slots will go unused because the weapons modules are useless is it really an improvement??

arty/air spam..is that an "improvement"?

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

The module slot system was changed while looking at role warfare. We are working on offering a bigger diversity of modules, we are also motivating players to play certain roles on the battlefield, which remains a great request from the Community. This is planned to be unveiled in stages throughout upcoming changes to the reward system and the new command system.

I'm not sure how limiting the number of 'mech modules you can equip achieves this, but OK ... I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.

Quote

... consumables and Weapon Modules offer a wide range of combinations and specializations.

I am hoping for more interesting (and maybe less expensive) consumables in the future ... smoke grenades (red smoke without a strike), sensor decoys, Jamming pods (think short-term ECM jamming), mines, TAG turret, etc.

As for weapon modules, I'm not particulatly excited about them at the moment ... while one cost has gone away (the old-style module slot), they are crazy expensive for the very slight benefit provided.

Gripes aside, some of the 'mechs that have two (or three when mastered) 'mech module slots are actually some of my favorites.

[Asmudius Heng]

Again - modules need to have roles tagged to them and each mech needs to then have spaces for modules based on roles.

The problem with how you explain this Niko is that MORE modules do not create greater roles. What happens is that certain modules become the meta overall and people start taking those over all others.

SOME modules synergise better with certain builds and those will become part and parcel.

The design decision of PGI is to allow as much customisation s possible an let players choose what they want to create a "role" which leads to mechs becoming obsolete and other becoming gunbags .... there is no ROLE that mechs excel at beyond ECM enabled for scouts, and then the best mix of mobility, hitboxes, and firepower within each class.

PGI need t realise that these huge machines of war were designed for certain roles and that making each chassis geared for that role by making them special in allowing only certain modules, weapons, equipment etc is actually a GOOD thing for the game.

Open customisation in mech building has caused issues already and now this new system for modules makes each mech as bland as each other while forcing people to look at the weapons modules rather than creating a system where each mech feels more individual and has a greater set of pros and cons.

Bottom line PGI.

THIS NEW MODULE SYSTEM WILL NOT ENCOURAGE ANY SORT OF ROLE WARFARE AT ALL.

It has no relevance to roles. It has no incentive for roles.

Now every mech can stock up on even more arty strikes rather than you know ... maybe having mechs that might be designed for support rather then every mech having this ability.

It is an obvious cbill ad XP sink - you cannot possibly try to have the community swallow the line that this change somehow enables better roles just because there are more modules - that allows more choice, not more roles. The two cannot be connected especially when you divide the modules as you have done.

PGI are doing great things right now with so many aspects of the game but this is a horrible disappointment and it cannot be glibly explained away.

[Threat Doc]

stjobe, on 29 July 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Here's what you should have done.

Implement the system from Dev Blog 4 linked above, and we might finally get some role warfare.

This system you're starting to implement now is bad and you should all feel bad.

FROM YOUR OWN DEV BLOG!!!!

Damn't, PGI, are you paying attention to us, NOW!

Edited by Kay Wolf, 29 July 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

This system is a good first step.

However, Mech modules need to be further split into Sensor and Mobility modules (with other potential module categories to be added as needed, but those two should cover most anything that isn't a Consumable or a Weapon module). A new Universal slot needs to be implemented as well (can hold anything but a Consumable), and the Master slot should be one of those.

[Pekiti]

Yesterday, with my mastered DDC, I could fit any four modules I wanted on it. I could (and did) fit 4 sensor/info gathering module, fulfilling the role of a true Command & Control mech for my team.

Today, I can fit two of those sensor modules, half as many, and 80k worth of the same thing every other mech in the game can bring. How delightful, one of the things that I felt helped offset my poor hitboxes, slow speed, and limited hardpoints has been reduced by half, and pretty much every other mech in the game can now perform the same role I used to fill. Truly, this is an improvement in the game.

[SVK Puskin]

Ha! You have 6 likes in the original topic! Is that the majority? You blinded selfished ...you know what!

Edited by ENS Puskin, 29 July 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

Pekiti, on 29 July 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

So more slots (in whatever flavor you label them) is an improvement?

Then why does my DDC have less useful slots today than it did yesterday? Less options, less chance to bring something useful along besides the inevitable Arty/Air Strike.

Weapon modules are still just as useless as they were yesterday, and I still won't be fitting any to my mechs. So how, exactly, did that improve game play for me?

I am not amused by the new module system.

I am always using cool shots in my Atlas but i would like to switch that useless weapon module slot for something usefull!

[Asmudius Heng]

Do not shoot the messenger. Niko did not make these decisions he has the demanding job of being the conduit for information us.

Love the post about the command Atlas though - really shows how this is worse for role warfare.

Whoever the decision maker about these modules are needs really think about this in more depth.

I understand you want to use the weapons modules- I do not mind that. I do not mind there being cbill and XP sink mechanisms in a F2P game.

Please do not try to sell this as a role warfare enhancer ... it fails.