72 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

terrycloth, on 31 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

There should at least be a cheap version.

I'd kind of like it if they were like the runes in Diablo III, and completely changed how weapons worked. You could have your 'Streak' rune that made SRMs track, but required lock on, and your 'Ultra' rune that let you refire ACs early but risked jamming, and your 'pulse' rune that made lasers burn faster and do a little more damage at the cost of range.

But BT already did that with different actual weapons to load onto your mech, so it'd be a little redundant.

uhm

that would completely defeat the purpose of streaks and UAC....

Lefty Lucy, on 31 July 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Yes, but LoL also sharply segregates players by ranking. In MWO you have scrubs routinely fighting against pros. There's no reason the "pros" need any further advantages than simple player experience and skill.

not so
pros are at the high end of the Elo scale, new players don't start anywhere near that. Now against vets yes, pros no.

[Lefty Lucy]

Sandpit, on 31 July 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

uhm

that would completely defeat the purpose of streaks and UAC....


not so
pros are at the high end of the Elo scale, new players don't start anywhere near that. Now against vets yes, pros no.

The match maker tries to make the total Elo scores of both teams about equal. It doesn't really put high-elo players only against other high-elo players.

[terrycloth]

Quote

that would completely defeat the purpose of streaks and UAC...

Yeah, it's a missed opportunity since they did it as separate weapons instead. But those are the sort of effects they'd need to make weapon modules as interesting as mech modules.

[Molossian Dog]

How about removing the terribad weapon modules alltogether?

If they are "fair" and give only negligible advantages at likewise small costs, noone is going to bother with them.

If they give a real advantage we further disadvantage new players. It is not like the grinding isn´t hard enough already.



What is this supposed to achieve? If you were going to say "specialization" (aka boating) or "role warfare" please do yourself a favour and slap yourself with a trout.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 31 July 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Molossian Dog, on 31 July 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

How about removing the terribad weapon modules alltogether?

If they are "fair" and give only negligible advantages at likewise small costs, noone is going to bother with them.

If they give a real advantage we further disadvantage new players. It is not like the grinding isn´t hard enough already.



What is this supposed to achieve? If you were going to say "specialization" (aka boating) or "role warfare" please do yourself a favour and slap yourself with a trout.

Or just make them like 100k cbills and tweak them a bit.

[terrycloth]

How about making weapon modules more like consumables? In the sense that you can only use them a limited number of times per match... I really think 'consumables' should not be actually consumable and instead just be a once-per-match power but that's a separate thing.

Anyway, you could have your enhanced MG module that you could activate to make your MG rounds transfer heat to the enemy for a few seconds, and your super-lrm module that makes the next LRM volley you shoot track the target regardless of losing lock or hiding behind terrain, and your lolburst module that gives your AC20 zero cooldown for a few seconds. That sort of thing.

[Molossian Dog]

Maybe that would work from a purely gaming point of view...

but it strikes me as something that would further break immersion. It sounds supicioulsy like a Power Up and reminds me of Mario Kart. Cartoony jingle and sparkling included.

I´d rather ditch the whole nonsense. With terrible stock Mechs, mandatory DHS, plenty of silly powerful consumables and Clan tech this game is already on the downward slope called power creep. Let´s not make it worse.

Noone is having one Iota more fun because of weapon modules. => Useless baggage for a game.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 01 August 2014 - 02:35 AM.

[Ambuscade]

The reasoning behind the current weapon module drawbacks is likely to avoid power creep. They offer a unique bonus at a price. At the moment they are not favored that well because we only have range weapon modules. Almost all of them increase range while increasing heat. While not very ideal for all weapons systems, some actually are worthwhile for others. We will likely get more weapon modules at some point that offer a much wider range of boosts besides range in the future. They will also likely have different drawbacks other than increased heat.

We will ultimately have to wait and see.
Ambuscade

[Sandpit]

Ambuscade, on 01 August 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

The reasoning behind the current weapon module drawbacks is likely to avoid power creep. They offer a unique bonus at a price. At the moment they are not favored that well because we only have range weapon modules. Almost all of them increase range while increasing heat. While not very ideal for all weapons systems, some actually are worthwhile for others. We will likely get more weapon modules at some point that offer a much wider range of boosts besides range in the future. They will also likely have different drawbacks other than increased heat.

We will ultimately have to wait and see.
Ambuscade

Agreed but they're still worthless. lol

[Molossian Dog]

They are useless now, but we were promised they won´t be in the future. So the advantages have to be greater than the disadvantages. So you gain something that further seperates you from a recently joined player. That is where the power creep is coming in.

Ah, yes, and the fact that each and every Mechs can run around with consumables without sacrifizing any other module.

Additionally what useful weapon modules, regardless of their specific effect, will do is promote more boating.
Do we really need more of that?

[PANZERKAT]

The only mods I can think of that would be good are larger ammo bins and shorter recharge time. Shorter recharge time sounds good, but that means dying faster. Game needs to be slowed down, not sped up.

Various ammunition types for Ballistics? Armour piercing? HE? Any other round you can think of.

[Koniving]

Alistair Winter, on 30 July 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

I think this is how weapon modules need to work. Forget one module for every weapon.

Make three modules for each category of weapon. Lasers, ballistic weapons, SRMs, LRMs, PPCs.

For example, you would have 3 laser modules. Note: I'm pulling numbers out of thin air here, just as an example.

• All lasers get 10% more damage, 20% less range
  
• All lasers get 15% less heat, 10% less damage.
  
• All lasers get 20% more range, 15% more heat.

This would actually force players to choose a role (brawler, sniper, striker, etc) and stick to it. Two people with the same build could have different modules, leading to different roles and playstyles.





EDIT: You could do three modules for every weapon in the game, of course. But there needs to be a trinity if there's going to be any kind of role warfare going on. Right now, it's a binary situation, either you use the module or you don't. Most people don't. If they buff the modules a bit, most people will. That's not role warfare.

Here's a funny thing, if you combine all 3 you will have a normal laser. Meaning stacking all 3 doesn't work. That's genius! Sounds like something I'd come up with.

It also sounds like Star Citizen's approach to weapon variants. Fun fact: They are using a quinary (5-way) system. If one variant has more power (damage), it draws some from one of the other four attributes.

Example:
If this missile has a strong homing function, it may draw away from speed and power.
This other one might have a high speed, but to get that speed it draws away from other things.

It's been a while since I looked but it was (for missiles) speed, homing (tracking), power (damage), fuel (how long it can fly), and something else. Something fantastic in one or great in two would be absolute crap in the others.

Ideal things are marginally better in some fields rather than epically better.

[AC]

Doesn't matter now anyway, as it seems people drop 10 arty strikes a game now. Who needs weapons....