24 replies to this topic

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Am I the only one that would love to be able to create a custom Camo Skin?

obviously it would be for MC but instead of using the preset Camo, you have Templates which you can load into photoshop and and create our own camo patterns.

Yay? Nay? Say? go play?

failing that, can we atleast get some new patterns soon, i find it weird there are like tons of colors you can buy, but like 10 or so patterns only.

[Joseph Mallan]

Any Corp would likely enjoy a custom Skin. I know I'd like a Murphy paint scheme. We do have Parade colors but no set style to speak of.

[Impyrium]

I can see this being interesting... but... I'm pretty sure each camo has to be specifically mapped/textured for each 'Mech. So I'm not sure it'd be as simple editing something in Photoshop. It'd also be open to abuse, frankly.

[kuangmk11]

Decals please.

[Joseph Mallan]

AUSwarrior24, on 29 July 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

I can see this being interesting... but... I'm pretty sure each camo has to be specifically mapped/textured for each 'Mech. So I'm not sure it'd be as simple editing something in Photoshop. It'd also be open to abuse, frankly.

So a Corp would need to get the funds together to have access?

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

AUSwarrior24, on 29 July 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

I can see this being interesting... but... I'm pretty sure each camo has to be specifically mapped/textured for each 'Mech. So I'm not sure it'd be as simple editing something in Photoshop. It'd also be open to abuse, frankly.

notice I did say template. each mech clearly has a template for these decals. and I did say it would be a paid for service, meaning they would obviously have some system in place where once you upload or submit it to the thing, it would then convert and and do it's thing.

as for texturing.. I don't think so. the patterns aren't textures as much as they are Overlays. you can see that the mechs base texture remains in place, there is no texturing, as so much it just gives UV co-ordinates for where the colors go on the mesh.

as for the abuse part I thought of people maybe doing rude or obscene things, but like I said, if they have an upload and convert feature with afew hours till it's converted and usable they can check to make sure it isn't.

failing that, I'm sure if someone was dumb enough to walk around with something obscene or rude, he'd get reported and banned, and lose the $$$ he spent... so i doubt anyone spending money on such a service or game would be prone to doing something that dumb.

[Impyrium]

My apologies, I missed the part about paying for the service. Perhaps in that manner, it could work. I guess it depends on whether an automatic system could recreate the textures, and how they are mapped onto the 'Mechs. It seems unlikely patterns such as the cross could simply be a single texture overlayed onto the main texture, but I've been known to be very wrong before.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

AUSwarrior24, on 29 July 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

My apologies, I missed the part about paying for the service. Perhaps in that manner, it could work. I guess it depends on whether an automatic system could recreate the textures, and how they are mapped onto the 'Mechs. It seems unlikely patterns such as the cross could simply be a single texture overlayed onto the main texture, but I've been known to be very wrong before.

I Do 3D work (semi pro, i'm not a CGI wizard or anything). The way this works isn't textures my friend. let me explain.

the Mesh as you know is made of polygons. now, the "texture" works using UVS, which is a co-ordinate mapping system, that is to say a way to apply a texture to said polygons from a 2D source (ie. a jpeg or PNG). people create a template of that using a UVS mapper (i'm talking low end amateurs to semi pros.. the pros can do it themselves when they create the mesh).

then they create the texture and then apply that file as the texture of the mesh.

now notice in in MWO, the mechs have a base texture. The Camo Patterns are seperate from this base texture.

the base texture has the scratches and the detailing of the weapons and vents and whatnot.

The Patterns function change the UVS of the colors applied over this base texture. I'm guessing the texture is a transparent PNG, and contains no color, just detail (think of someone using a pencil to add shade or scratches).

The camo pattern when applied changes the layout of the UV colors on the mech, but does not affect the texture. this is why I can see creating custom patterns isn't an issue... since you are not actually texturing, you are just creating a template for where the colors go when applied to the mech, like a stencil.

It just seems like a really fun way to customize and really make your mechs personal.

[Impyrium]

BaronBastardKiller, on 29 July 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

I Do 3D work (semi pro, i'm not a CGI wizard or anything). The way this works isn't textures my friend. let me explain.

the Mesh as you know is made of polygons. now, the "texture" works using UVS, which is a co-ordinate mapping system, that is to say a way to apply a texture to said polygons from a 2D source (ie. a jpeg or PNG). people create a template of that using a UVS mapper (i'm talking low end amateurs to semi pros.. the pros can do it themselves when they create the mesh).

then they create the texture and then apply that file as the texture of the mesh.

now notice in in MWO, the mechs have a base texture. The Camo Patterns are seperate from this base texture.

the base texture has the scratches and the detailing of the weapons and vents and whatnot.

The Patterns function change the UVS of the colors applied over this base texture. I'm guessing the texture is a transparent PNG, and contains no color, just detail (think of someone using a pencil to add shade or scratches).

The camo pattern when applied changes the layout of the UV colors on the mech, but does not affect the texture. this is why I can see creating custom patterns isn't an issue... since you are not actually texturing, you are just creating a template for where the colors go when applied to the mech, like a stencil.

It just seems like a really fun way to customize and really make your mechs personal.

I'm trying to learn some modelling and texturing myself, so I'm only just getting my head around texturing. So perhaps that's why I'm missing this.

I guess what's confusing me is camo textures such as the one which adds separate stripes to the left leg and right arm. Surely that would have to be different for each 'Mech, since each 'Mech has a different texture map and UV layout, so the arms and legs would be different on each texture map and therefore the same template would have to be differently applied to each base texture?

Or would that be part of the service that you are suggesting? I think I'm still missing stuff, sorry for being a pain.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

AUSwarrior24, on 29 July 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

I'm trying to learn some modelling and texturing myself, so I'm only just getting my head around texturing. So perhaps that's why I'm missing this.

I guess what's confusing me is camo textures such as the one which adds separate stripes to the left leg and right arm. Surely that would have to be different for each 'Mech, since each 'Mech has a different texture map and UV layout, so the arms and legs would be different on each texture map and therefore the same template would have to be differently applied to each base texture?

Or would that be part of the service that you are suggesting? I think I'm still missing stuff, sorry for being a pain.

I used to be a mod on a 3D modelling forum so it's no pain

you're absolutely right in that a pattern for an Atlas would not work on a Cataphract since it is a Difference mesh with a different UVS layout.

However, for some 3D applications, I have seen utilities which allow textures to be converted to fit the UVS of a figure. I've seen similar things done on Daz/Poser with their V and M series where you could convert textures. however I doubt that would be an effective (or even an actual viable solution) way to do things.

Ultimately if you wanted your pattern design on several mesh's (like a corps design or unit design as I think someone mentioned and I guess many would like to have) then you would have to make your design over several templates.

Failing that. PGI could offer that as a separate service in the Camo Shop, a "Unit Pattern" where you supply the design for one mech and they convert it either to all IS or All clan and obviously charge a certain amount of MC for it or whatever.

The concept itself is a fun one, but it's also not mega straightforward, and I think If they ever did implement something like this, it would certainly be a good 6-9 months before it went life probably. Or maybe they won't implement it since it was someone else's idea and they don't want to get sued

there's some BattleTech 3D mesh's online that you can download and mess around texturing.

[AlmightyAeng]

{Richard Cameron}. {Richard Cameron} EVERYWHERE.

[Sandpit]

Suggested, begged for, asked for, pleaded for, and maybe even threatened for within a month of joining the community.

Russ has even said he loves the idea. But, well..... that's as far as it's ever been taken.

Plenty of other games allow this type of thing, no reason you shouldn't have it here. It would be a HUGE money sink and revenue generator.

I break out photoshop and design a custom logo for a unit. I pay xx MC to upload the logo and the unit then pays me xx amount of cbills for the logo (the cbill price is set between myself and the unit, the MC price is fixed) so if Unita A agree to pay me xx cbills for designing and paying to upload a logo, I make cbills, the unit gets its logo, and PGI makes money based on the MC cost of uploading the logo. No downside whatsoever.

Don't start with "copyright" lawsuit excuses either. As I said, TONS of other games allow stuff like this so there's PLENTY of example of how to utilize a system like that without running afoul of copyright and trademark infringements.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Sandpit, on 30 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Suggested, begged for, asked for, pleaded for, and maybe even threatened for within a month of joining the community.

Russ has even said he loves the idea. But, well..... that's as far as it's ever been taken.

Plenty of other games allow this type of thing, no reason you shouldn't have it here. It would be a HUGE money sink and revenue generator.

I break out photoshop and design a custom logo for a unit. I pay xx MC to upload the logo and the unit then pays me xx amount of cbills for the logo (the cbill price is set between myself and the unit, the MC price is fixed) so if Unita A agree to pay me xx cbills for designing and paying to upload a logo, I make cbills, the unit gets its logo, and PGI makes money based on the MC cost of uploading the logo. No downside whatsoever.

Don't start with "copyright" lawsuit excuses either. As I said, TONS of other games allow stuff like this so there's PLENTY of example of how to utilize a system like that without running afoul of copyright and trademark infringements.

Not sure if your charging units for a logo is something they would allow, not that I disagree with the idea, since obviously not everyone is a designer.

as for the lawsuit remark, it was a joke, so relax...

[Sandpit]

BaronBastardKiller, on 29 July 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

I Do 3D work (semi pro, i'm not a CGI wizard or anything). The way this works isn't textures my friend. let me explain.

the Mesh as you know is made of polygons. now, the "texture" works using UVS, which is a co-ordinate mapping system, that is to say a way to apply a texture to said polygons from a 2D source (ie. a jpeg or PNG). people create a template of that using a UVS mapper (i'm talking low end amateurs to semi pros.. the pros can do it themselves when they create the mesh).

then they create the texture and then apply that file as the texture of the mesh.

now notice in in MWO, the mechs have a base texture. The Camo Patterns are seperate from this base texture.

the base texture has the scratches and the detailing of the weapons and vents and whatnot.

The Patterns function change the UVS of the colors applied over this base texture. I'm guessing the texture is a transparent PNG, and contains no color, just detail (think of someone using a pencil to add shade or scratches).

The camo pattern when applied changes the layout of the UV colors on the mech, but does not affect the texture. this is why I can see creating custom patterns isn't an issue... since you are not actually texturing, you are just creating a template for where the colors go when applied to the mech, like a stencil.

It just seems like a really fun way to customize and really make your mechs personal.

this

all you're really doing is altering the "skin" of the mech. Whether that be a jpeg, tga, gif, etc. You're not actually altering or affecting the base model underneath. It's similar to painting a wall. You can "add" texture with the paint (which is an illusion in a 2d representation) or you can alter the appearance but you're not affecting the wall itself.

I think that's what he was getting it here.

BaronBastardKiller, on 30 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Not sure if your charging units for a logo is something they would allow, not that I disagree with the idea, since obviously not everyone is a designer.

as for the lawsuit remark, it was a joke, so relax...

I wasn't directing the "lawsuit" comment at you, I just know what's coming for this thread. There's going to be several that will use that as a reason not to implement this idea. So I'm trying to diffuse that argument before it even gets started.

If you're charging for cbills and paying in MC to upload I don't see how they could have an issue with it

[Armament]

I would not mind being able to add male genitalia to my 'Mech just like 75% of the player base will do.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Sandpit, on 30 July 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

I wasn't directing the "lawsuit" comment at you, I just know what's coming for this thread. There's going to be several that will use that as a reason not to implement this idea. So I'm trying to diffuse that argument before it even gets started.

If you're charging for cbills and paying in MC to upload I don't see how they could have an issue with it

well anyone suggesting such a thing would have to be daft...doesn't take a genius to think of such an idea, I'm 100% they thought of this at PGI (and as you mention they did) but realized it would take a lot of work and probably said they'd leave it for when CW and units/corps and factions were actually implemented properly into the game, and since it never did happen, they just stuck with colors and premade patterns.

now with CW and factions actually being a thing in the game, the idea of the camo shop is pretty viable.

[Sandpit]

BaronBastardKiller, on 30 July 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

well anyone suggesting such a thing would have to be daft...doesn't take a genius to think of such an idea, I'm 100% they thought of this at PGI (and as you mention they did) but realized it would take a lot of work and probably said they'd leave it for when CW and units/corps and factions were actually implemented properly into the game, and since it never did happen, they just stuck with colors and premade patterns.

now with CW and factions actually being a thing in the game, the idea of the camo shop is pretty viable.

trust me, every time one of these threads pops up that's one of the more common responses as to why it shouldn't be implemented.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Sandpit, on 30 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

trust me, every time one of these threads pops up that's one of the more common responses as to why it shouldn't be implemented.

Doesn't surprise me, some of the arguments I've had on this forum have been downright ridiculous.. I was under the impression the user base here was mostly older people and not kids. Then again, older people can act a lot dumber than kids do...

Unless a brand is used in the camo (you'd have to be a moron to want to use someone from one Universe into a fictional one), I don't see any legal gripes. Everything has a terms of service/usage and the camo shop would be no different, not to mention they'd reserve the right to refuse any designs that are against code.

Beyond implementing it into a functional service built into the U.I, I don't see any reason for it not to happen. And with CW/Factions becoming a future prospect, This seems like a very viable thing for both parties. For the users to have their mechs with their units or faction designs, and for PGI to make money without resorting to sales every 10 minutes..

[Sandpit]

BaronBastardKiller, on 30 July 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Doesn't surprise me, some of the arguments I've had on this forum have been downright ridiculous.. I was under the impression the user base here was mostly older people and not kids. Then again, older people can act a lot dumber than kids do...

Unless a brand is used in the camo (you'd have to be a moron to want to use someone from one Universe into a fictional one), I don't see any legal gripes. Everything has a terms of service/usage and the camo shop would be no different, not to mention they'd reserve the right to refuse any designs that are against code.

Beyond implementing it into a functional service built into the U.I, I don't see any reason for it not to happen. And with CW/Factions becoming a future prospect, This seems like a very viable thing for both parties. For the users to have their mechs with their units or faction designs, and for PGI to make money without resorting to sales every 10 minutes..

honestly, that changed when it went OB and then launched. That's also when we started getting some of the "unpopular" changes to the game and the "adult" crowd started either looking for greener pastures or started getting more cantankerous.

The thing is all they really have to do is put a warning label on the upload process "Any copyrighted and/or trademarked material, logos, etc. used in the making of a logo will be deleted at the players' cost" That's all the needs to be done. Then delete them as you find them.

Also, it's not a magical "sue them" issue either. It's not like you pop up a pepsi logo and pepsi sues you under the planet. They ask you to stop using it. It's called a cease and desist. Now if PGI refused to monitor and delete things like that, THEN they could be looking at a lawsuit

[CeeKay Boques]

I just want numbers and insignias.