Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:
I wasn't aware we had LRM mech vs non LRM mech matches and the LRM mech's got skunked (of course they would). Not sure how relevant your point is. I'm not making this argument out of thin air because it feels like it. We are discussing the results of the C v IS matches and how they seemed to heavily favor the Clans. There have been several screens posted and many more anecdotes of clan rolls.
You missed the point.
People will always argue, worrying about having proof for EVERY.SINGLE.ARGUMENT. is a waste of time, and a waste of fun.
Who the hell thinks "Hey, I just won a match, let's screen cap it so I can use it in my next debate" instead of jumping into the next one. Especially considering anyone worth their salt won't use anecdotal evidence as a statistic. I use it to show why people are wrong, and in this case, why clan mechs aren't OP, and pay2win. I use anecdotal evidence to teach people what they should, and shouldn't do. Not to make a general umbrella statement over the entire game.
If you want to talk about OP mechs, tell me how many Adders you see around? How many Novas do you see in comparison to Shadowhawks, Stormcrows, or any other medium? How many Summoners do you see in comparison to Cataphracts, Orions, Jagers, T-Wolves ... etc?
Roland, on 01 August 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:
No retro, it isn't even remotely on par. The timber wolf is dramatically better.. Hell even in your attempt to try and draw a fictitious parity between the two, you are taking about a ctf running a slow std engine against a twolf running at 90 kph.
It's not even close. It is flat out worse in every way, no matter how bad you want to pretend otherwise. And it's going to be painfully obvious even to people trying to bury their heads in the same when people can all drive them.
Hell, even behind a paywall, it's already the most popular mech in the game, lol.
Except for the part where the CTF poptarts better, and will usually win a duel against that T-Wolf. Even in a DoT engagement, the CTF will still be pulling out more damage with 4xAC5s (3 is much better in my opinion).
Oh yes, the T-Wolf is highly mobile (kinda fits with the reaction the IS pilots got when they saw it move, and learned it was a 75 tonner). There's no denying it's mobility (especially if you use the risky S STs). However, other than that, it's competition are the Orion (75 tonner that runs a STD 300 build regularly, with an AC20 +SRMs+MLs for maximum carnage. A loadout fitting for an Atlas), the Cataphract, until the JJ modification recently, one of the best mechs in the game, almost tied with the DS. Also capable of running good STD and XL engine builds that make it terrifying with it's ballistic loadouts. Plus, the Victor, again, until the recent JJ nerfs, the best mech in the game. Now it's a good brawler, and can still do a massive number on anything within sight with a ballistic/energy loadout.
None of them move like the T-Wolf, but in return they usually are better at surviving, and carry comparable firepower. Or in the case of the Orion, they can get a kill much faster.
The T-Wolf will carry a lot of weapons (if built in a smart way, and not the Gauss ERPPC build, which only works against people that don't close the distance correctly), however, it won't strip armor faster than it's competitors (provided again, that both pilots are actually decent players)
Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:
So you say, but you are the only one in this thread reporting such results, and you have nothing to back it up.. Others have posted screenshots.
Clearly I'm not the only one reporting these results if you've been around the forums. Otherwise there wouldn't be an argument and everyone would be agreeing.
Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:
You didn't know? So was is it another IraqiWalker I have seen so ardently arguing clan balance in all these threads I have been reading over the past couple weeks?
I made the mistake of thinking people will use their brain cells. Last test showed that there was barely an advantage (having new players only for IS is a massive handicap), I made the mistake of thinking that would shut the "CLANS OP NERF NOW PLEASE" crowd. My mistake.
I use anecdotal evidence to show people where they went wrong.
I use numbers, stats, application of assets, and tactics to show people what they should, and shouldn't do.
In long range maps, if you have a short range mech, ask your team to help you, by setting up somewhere where the enemy is forced to engage in CQC, or relegate yourself to being a second line mech, and not on the front getting shot without the ability to fire back .... etc.
Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:
You are telling me you had no idea that the concept of the Clan's being over powered hasn't been a hot point of contention since virtually the day of their release? A concept you have argued so hard against for these past couple weeks, and yet when in C v IS matches that were successive rolls in favor of the IS you didn't think to take a screen shot to use for your next debate?
Are you feeling OK?
If you had been stalking me like you have clearly posted, you would have realized, I discussed balance a lot. However, I'm not going to bend over backwards to try and convince someone who isn't willing to be convinced even though those that know better are saying otherwise.
Right now, the only clan mech considered relatively competitive is the T-Wolf with the Gauss+ERPPC set up. THAT is something you use in balance discussions, not anecdotal evidence of you getting rolled. I brought my anecdotal evidence in here since that's all this thread cares about apparently.
In proper discussion no one uses anecdotal evidence to make verdicts about balance and such. Anecdotal evidence isn't a statistic.
I just hope next time they try and conduct one of these tests, they would let us know ahead of time (then again, that might make players that one clans to be nerfed under perform on purpose to try and skew the stats).
Edited by IraqiWalker, 01 August 2014 - 07:31 PM.
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