10 replies to this topic

[El Death Smurf]

This is an issue that I always thought the devs were going fix, but over a year later I'm surprised it hasn't been done.

we have 2 maps that absolutely necessitate vision modes. (River City Night, and Frozen City Day)

my issue is with the thermal vision mode on Frozen City. why is the snow bright white? Almost as white as the mechs' ?! When Canyon Network has thermal vision working better than the one map that you have to use thermal, then something's wrong.

should be an easy fix. I imagine...

[churchofjt]

Darn good question. I had simply accepted this as normal, but you're right. As you said, should be an easy fix, I'd think.

[Pain Killer]

churchofjt, on 30 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

should be an easy fix, I'd think.

Somehow I doubt that can be fixed easily - depending on how the thermal mode is implemented technically, it could call for quite a lot of work. BUT, regardless of how much work would it require, it still needs being done, since the current situation simple makes zero sense at all.

[LastPaladin]

El Death Smurf, on 30 July 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

This is an issue that I always thought the devs were going fix, but over a year later I'm surprised it hasn't been done.

we have 2 maps that absolutely necessitate vision modes. (River City Night, and Frozen City Day)

my issue is with the thermal vision mode on Frozen City. why is the snow bright white? Almost as white as the mechs' ?! When Canyon Network has thermal vision working better than the one map that you have to use thermal, then something's wrong.

should be an easy fix. I imagine...

Night vision on river city night is junk too, because they nerfed the range as a stealth nerf against snipers (instead of making the map bigger after 12v12). Most of the time, I just turn gamma up and leave it off because you can actually see better without it.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Normally for a specific mode to work correctly (thermal) there needs to be additional views of everything that can be 'referenced' when that mode is active.

- So when thermal is active we need a different view of each item, the normal view of the Mech's and it's 'thermal' view.
- Same would need to be done with Terrain, but if the 'ground cover' (snow) is not an actual 'object' it may be more difficult.

With 'a real life' thermal system you have an option to go white or black hot, but not looking for that detail from MWO yet.
- with the snow maps, depending on the reflected/held heat on surfaces, most items should be very cold. And thus dark, in the current method of display MWO uses. Again, there may be 'technical' issues, but this should be available in the CryEngine settings to change the image for different modes.

Night vision is a bit of a beast to 'do right', it all depends on what the current light sources are and how much light is directed at the viewer from his current location. Many line of sight and ambient light calculations required, as it's not a 'global' effect.
- simply firing a weapon should temporally blind the firer when in night vision mode, or having a light intensive Laser aimed in your direction would make that system 'over saturated' and probably shut it down or have a filter applied for a second or two.
(not fun for a game or gameplay, yea reality sucks.)

And as a note here, having used both of there types of systems in real life, neither is done right.
- amplified light, and IR systems operate differently in how you see images, this game is closer to IR in it's method of night vision.
- Thermal is 'just off' as it doesn't account for individual item sources of heat, from differentiating different parts of objects holding different amounts of heat. Example, a building will have different thermals views on different walls depending on were the heat source is currently. And normally all windows will be black, depending on the there surface treatment is. Mech's should be displayed in a similar method, heat from active weapons and overall body only somewhat radiating small amounts of heat. The machines are designed to dissipate heat rapidly, and with shielding/armour covering the entire Mech, there should not be as large a 'signature' as we see now.
- If the Mech hasn't fired any weapons and hasn't moved much it should present a very low thermal image. And be rather difficult to 'pick out' from the ambient terrain. If your under the impression that the Mech's 'reactor' broadcasts a giant plum of heat, you would be wrong. That's what all the shielding and heat sinks are for, to eliminate and remove this heat signature as fast as possible.

- (real vs game) Look at any Military vehicle in night vision or thermal, it's not the engine/power source that's producing heat, it's the exhaust. Cool down that heat exhaust and it goes away, and now very difficult to see or find.


Just some thoughts,
9erRed

[Troutmonkey]

Snow cold = pitch black.
Mechs hot = white hot.

Not really any excuse for it to be otherwise. Other maps have proper terrain in thermal, so why not this.

Terra Therma NV should be looked at too, because while it's very warm, it's also very dark and NV should work properly there

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

@ troutmonkey,

Reference Terra Therma and it being dark.

Not so, it may appear dark but under 'night vision' all the ambient light from the active volcano's, Lava, cloud bounce back would over saturate the sensors.
- Without having a NV 'dial' to turn down the emitted light and only one setting, this device is rather useless.
- Terra Therma is rather a closed box where light is concerned, low clouds, lots of 'eruptions', and nearly blinding Lava flows all add to the overall available light. It may look dark to the naked eye but amplified it should be blinding.

- Todays RL night vision amplifies the existing light about a million + times, and as an example, in the high artic where there is no light at night, night vision devices are nearly useless from just the amount of star light.


As I mentioned, we do need additional 'settings' for the two vision modes we have now, we need a dial down for NV, and similar settings for Thermal vision. Thermal should have a black/white hot switch for different temperature environments, and the same dial down NV would have.

Just saying,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 31 July 2014 - 07:41 AM.

[Grendel408]

Thermal works like a charm on Terra Therma! LOL! (that's sarcasm btw) Somewhat useful on Caustic in the caldera to see through hot smoke too lol... Thermal is broken... and it's range on vision being diminished like Night Vision is rather stupid from my experience with actual Thermal cameras.

Edited by Grendel408, 31 July 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Matthew Craig]

Part of the issue here is that the maps need dedicated art time to ensure that correct thermal values are set for each asset and passed to the shader. This hasn't been a high priority and currently art resources are working towards a new map so it remains on the back burner.

[Grendel408]

Just curious, but how large is that back burner?

[Big Tin Man]

^^ You know the caldera on terra therma....