57 replies to this topic

[SamsungNinja]

Ok, so I really like my IS mechs. That being said, I just picked up the Masakari pack today and will be anxious to try clan mechs too.

But, over the weekend I picked up a Heavy Metal. I've wanted one for ages, and at least wanted to own it and learn to play it. I'm typically a Stalker pilot, and not much for boating. I like balanced builds that can hold their own.

So, with that on the table, it really feels like my Highlanders are less durable than my Stalkers. What weirds me out is that, with the HM, I can fire my weapons at an angle (build is LRM20, LRM10, AC10, 1xLPL, 2xML) and try to avoid facing the enemy straight-on. This seems to offer little resistance to Dire Wolf meta builds like the 6x C-UAC5 and the Dual C-Gauss/C-ER-PPC. More particularly the former.

I feel like if I turn the wrong corner in this slow, lumbering pile of metal that the two seconds I'm exposed to fire from a 'mech that out-weighs me by 5 tons is enough to take my CT from 100% to dark red.

Is this just a Highlander thing I have to get used to? Is it because the hit box for CT is a lot easier to hit than my STKs?

I just feel like I wreck face in my STKs on a consistent basis (I have a KDR of 2.0, +/- 0.3 depending on the variant). The HGN just feels like I have to work twice as hard to see those 3 or 4 kill matches, with 700+ damage.

Wondering if I'm missing something or the HGN is just a slow-moving damage magnet and this is just the world I've entered after deciding to finally go for the HGNs?

Am I just a bad that found my niche with the Stalkers and if I leave it I'm screwed? I'm not sure. Help needed.

On an unrelated note: What are people's opinions on Battlemasters? I think they look interesting, like Stalkers with arms (considering the hardpoints/weight).

Cheers and thanks in advance for your help.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 31 July 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Ok, so I really like my IS mechs. That being said, I just picked up the Masakari pack today and will be anxious to try clan mechs too.

But, over the weekend I picked up a Heavy Metal. I've wanted one for ages, and at least wanted to own it and learn to play it. I'm typically a Stalker pilot, and not much for boating. I like balanced builds that can hold their own.

So, with that on the table, it really feels like my Highlanders are less durable than my Stalkers. What weirds me out is that, with the HM, I can fire my weapons at an angle (build is LRM20, LRM10, AC10, 1xLPL, 2xML) and try to avoid facing the enemy straight-on. This seems to offer little resistance to Dire Wolf meta builds like the 6x C-UAC5 and the Dual C-Gauss/C-ER-PPC. More particularly the former.

I feel like if I turn the wrong corner in this slow, lumbering pile of metal that the two seconds I'm exposed to fire from a 'mech that out-weighs me by 5 tons is enough to take my CT from 100% to dark red.

Is this just a Highlander thing I have to get used to? Is it because the hit box for CT is a lot easier to hit than my STKs?

I just feel like I wreck face in my STKs on a consistent basis (I have a KDR of 2.0, +/- 0.3 depending on the variant). The HGN just feels like I have to work twice as hard to see those 3 or 4 kill matches, with 700+ damage.

Wondering if I'm missing something or the HGN is just a slow-moving damage magnet and this is just the world I've entered after deciding to finally go for the HGNs?

Am I just a bad that found my niche with the Stalkers and if I leave it I'm screwed? I'm not sure. Help needed.

On an unrelated note: What are people's opinions on Battlemasters? I think they look interesting, like Stalkers with arms (considering the hardpoints/weight).

Cheers and thanks in advance for your help.

The JJ nerf has hit highlanders harder than any other mech. Not only do they have a relatively limited number of extremely heavy jets, but their boost-per-jet is abysmal as well.

I haven't heard the siren call of the Heavy Metal in weeks.

[Asmudius Heng]

The Stalker is an extremely durable mech due to its tiny CT and easy to hide side torsos by torso twisting. The stalker piloted well takes a huge beating.

The Highlander though has a decent sized CT. It used to be a beast with good JJs but now that has been nerfed. It is still a decently mobile assault but it does not have a Stalker staying power.

Might be more XL friendly but I do not know I don't own one.

Battlemasters are ... OK. Nothing that other mechs cannot do better. The high energy points make them decent PPC users from cover and they can take quite a big engine. Not terribly durable, big CT - but can get away with a XL if you keep distance.

[Mavairo]

Highlanders are the Suck now.
Stalkers, Atlases, Victors (sorta), and Battlemasters are the IS assaults.

The Not Awesome's buff effectiveness remains to be seen.

[Zordicron]

Shooting at an angle does not mean you have twisted far enouh to avoid hits to CT. In things like HGN, and Atlas, etc, you actually need to turn far enough you cant see your attacker for dmg to hit the arm for instance.

Also, Stalkers are hella tough, lose an arm means more dmg reduction to side torso, lose that and its more reduction to CT. Given the same situation you mention above, a HGN will eat big dmg to torsos, possibly leading to early death. A stalker, well, you probably lost an arm or most of the armor on the side torso/arm, maybe even half your mech, but still had weapons to fight with and a whole other half to absorb in coming fire after wiggling your way back out of danger.

It sounds like you dont quite have the awareness skills yet to handle something as slow as assaults. When you are that slow and big, you need excellent awareness so you stay out of the line of fire until you have advantage. it doesnt come easy to most.

I recomend learning awareness on something a little quicker, and paying special attention to your team, the enemy, and the terrain and radar for a while, even as priority over shooting the enemy. Pay attention to where you are in relation to team, use both your field of view and radar to try to pick up on how to loacate enemy and enemy movements faster, and learn to move to counter or flank them, and also move to avoid getting caught with your pants down.

Then, move up in tonnage. This is why things like hunchies and cents get touted as excellent starter mechs, they are quick enough to move away from danger, carry enough boomstick to be useful, but also are fragile enough to teach the harsh lessons. I would say, the Stalker you have is terrible for those ideas, as it is freegin tough, and had bad field of vision, plus built in arm lock etc. It lets you learn maps, and weapons, but not really the important parts of the game, like piloting and movment IE: awareness.

[SamsungNinja]

Asmudius Heng, on 31 July 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

The Stalker is an extremely durable mech due to its tiny CT and easy to hide side torsos by torso twisting. The stalker piloted well takes a huge beating.

The Highlander though has a decent sized CT. It used to be a beast with good JJs but now that has been nerfed. It is still a decently mobile assault but it does not have a Stalker staying power.

Might be more XL friendly but I do not know I don't own one.

Battlemasters are ... OK. Nothing that other mechs cannot do better. The high energy points make them decent PPC users from cover and they can take quite a big engine. Not terribly durable, big CT - but can get away with a XL if you keep distance.

Ok, that's what I was hoping. It's pretty easy to swing my Tactical Battle DiIdo's nose around. I still have to master the HM, so I'll just have to keep learning on it. But hey, I worked my 0.15 KDR from my first 10 matches in it up to a 0.50 last night. It just feels really weird. I pull a 1.73 KDR in my HGN-733C. I was just expecting similar results from the HM.

My 3F and Misery are probably my favorite mechs in the whole damn game, though. We'll see if that stays true after I get my clan mechs, though >:]

Eldagore, on 31 July 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

It sounds like you dont quite have the awareness skills yet to handle something as slow as assaults. When you are that slow and big, you need excellent awareness so you stay out of the line of fire until you have advantage. it doesnt come easy to most.

I recomend learning awareness on something a little quicker, and paying special attention to your team, the enemy, and the terrain and radar for a while, even as priority over shooting the enemy. Pay attention to where you are in relation to team, use both your field of view and radar to try to pick up on how to loacate enemy and enemy movements faster, and learn to move to counter or flank them, and also move to avoid getting caught with your pants down.

Then, move up in tonnage. This is why things like hunchies and cents get touted as excellent starter mechs, they are quick enough to move away from danger, carry enough boomstick to be useful, but also are fragile enough to teach the harsh lessons. I would say, the Stalker you have is terrible for those ideas, as it is freegin tough, and had bad field of vision, plus built in arm lock etc. It lets you learn maps, and weapons, but not really the important parts of the game, like piloting and movment IE: awareness.

I think you're probably right about the awareness. Any pointers on how to improve this? I started with Spiders, bought the STK-3F, then went to hunchies, then Jagers for a good while, followed by Cataphracts, and finally bought the fleet of STKs (STK-M, 3H, 5M, and 5S), minus the 4N because obvious reasons are obvious. I have just now gone up to HGNs.

Maybe it's the jump from 85 to 95, and I'm just struggling with not having speed tweak (50KPH is brutal). Maybe I'll try a bigger engine and see if it's just the speed that's getting in my way.

Sorry for giving you my MWO history, I just feel like I'm a solid STK pilot, as I always pull at least 500dmg and 1-2 kills in matches (at least with my Misery), with good games seeing 4-5 kills and 1100+dmg. However, if I step outside STKs, the results from other chassis types vary wildly. [Bad in denial is real]

In HGNs, I feel like a complete noob all over again. Getting stuck on rocks, running into walls, always finding myself on the wrong side of the pack when a flank rolls over the ridge, etc.

So, any help you or others can offer as to how one such as myself might go about increasing my awareness would help.

Note: I have moderate-severe adult ADHD (the actual clinical diagnosis, not the typical "lol I'm scatterbrained and must have ADHD" cop-out), and sometimes I feel really overwhelmed with what I'm supposed to be paying attention to when I step outside my familiar comfort zone.

I can recognize that environmental awareness is something with which I definitely need help, but I find it difficult to intuitively ferret out where I should start and (additionally), once I have the fundamentals down, what I ought to work on from there.

TL;DR: Plz to provide roadmap for success in regards to tactical awareness; because adult ADHD is real.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 31 July 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Biglead]

Mavairo, on 31 July 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

Highlanders are the Suck now.
Stalkers, Atlases, Victors (sorta), and Battlemasters are the IS assaults.

The Not Awesome's buff effectiveness remains to be seen.

Don't forget the one mech that still eats Clan Mechs for breakfast. The Banshee.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

(build is LRM20, LRM10, AC10, 1xLPL, 2xML)

Am I just a bad

Yes.

[Sandpit]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Ok, so I really like my IS mechs. That being said, I just picked up the Masakari pack today and will be anxious to try clan mechs too.

But, over the weekend I picked up a Heavy Metal. I've wanted one for ages, and at least wanted to own it and learn to play it. I'm typically a Stalker pilot, and not much for boating. I like balanced builds that can hold their own.

So, with that on the table, it really feels like my Highlanders are less durable than my Stalkers. What weirds me out is that, with the HM, I can fire my weapons at an angle (build is LRM20, LRM10, AC10, 1xLPL, 2xML) and try to avoid facing the enemy straight-on. This seems to offer little resistance to Dire Wolf meta builds like the 6x C-UAC5 and the Dual C-Gauss/C-ER-PPC. More particularly the former.

I feel like if I turn the wrong corner in this slow, lumbering pile of metal that the two seconds I'm exposed to fire from a 'mech that out-weighs me by 5 tons is enough to take my CT from 100% to dark red.

Is this just a Highlander thing I have to get used to? Is it because the hit box for CT is a lot easier to hit than my STKs?

I just feel like I wreck face in my STKs on a consistent basis (I have a KDR of 2.0, +/- 0.3 depending on the variant). The HGN just feels like I have to work twice as hard to see those 3 or 4 kill matches, with 700+ damage.

Wondering if I'm missing something or the HGN is just a slow-moving damage magnet and this is just the world I've entered after deciding to finally go for the HGNs?

Am I just a bad that found my niche with the Stalkers and if I leave it I'm screwed? I'm not sure. Help needed.

On an unrelated note: What are people's opinions on Battlemasters? I think they look interesting, like Stalkers with arms (considering the hardpoints/weight).

Cheers and thanks in advance for your help.

Highlander is a compeltely different animal than the Stalker. I'm a dedicated Stalker pilot but I likes my Highlander on occasion as well. Trust me, if you've been piloting a Stalker as your main ride, you've gotten a little spoiled lol

The hitboxes, high weapon mounts, and slim profile make it seem more "durable" a lot of times. I'd suggest slowing down a little and remembering how you might have been a little more timid at first while learning to play. Just about every chassis is going to have its own little set of "quirks" like that

One of the things I like about this game. Even with repetitive game play if you ever want a challenge, just pick a new mech you haven't used before and leanr how to be efficient with it sounds like you're not a bad, just relearning a few things

[Soulscour]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Am I just a bad that found my niche with the Stalkers and if I leave it I'm screwed? I'm not sure. Help needed.

You are not a bad pilot. You are one of the pilots that I take note of before a game because your presence on a team greatly affects that teams teams chance of success. I have not tried battlemasters yet so can't really say anything about them other than they are easy to hit.

[Vassago Rain]

The highlander is really bad now.

[Cyborne Elemental]

HGN is setup almost like the Victor in terms of hitbox geometry.

Huge CT hitbox that stick out ahead of the L/R torso\s, the HGN's side torso's are set back just enough so that you have to do a perfect 90 degree turn to effectively cover your CT from a shot.

Even if you do turn to avoid fire, your head (CT) area is still completely exposed and if your opponent aims up, or if you're taking LRM fire, you will still take a majority of damage to the CT over any other place.

The HGN has also been hit twice by JJ nerfs.

The first one was to slow the rate of climb by 50% without disturbing the max 44 meter lift, which meant it could no longer Poptart effectively, but was still more than capable of maneuvering up surfaces and over obstacles.

This second Global JJ nerf, halved its thrust ratio again, as well as reducing its maximum jump height in half, even with max jets.

8 tons of worthless equipment is better spent on cooling/speed/firepower now.

But then all JJ equipped mechs got neutered this last patch, HGN just feels it the most because its old nerf to thrust was never reverted to balance it out.

[Asmudius Heng]

On an aside ... I think the poor highlander should get some inbuilt fall damage reduction on its legs. IT is part of the lore I think and would at least allow them to save less fuel for the fall giving more height - still probably wouldn't save it but something lol

[terrycloth]

Ugh. I was tired of always being outgunned in a Jenner so I bought a Highlander to (over)compensate. Because it was the highest rated assault mech (that I could afford) on the rankings thread. And now I find out it's trash?

Apparently they didn't update the list for the nerfs?

(of course, my lack of success is probably just not knowing how to play assaults in general, since I tend to die after noticing that the rest of my team, that I was advancing behind, has somehow all vanished leaving me all alone against all the enemies)

[SamsungNinja]

Soulscour, on 31 July 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

You are not a bad pilot. You are one of the pilots that I take note of before a game because your presence on a team greatly affects that teams teams chance of success.

That really made my day, just so you know

Mister D, on 31 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

The HGN has also been hit twice by JJ nerfs.

8 tons of worthless equipment is better spent on cooling/speed/firepower now.

I learned that lesson really fast, and my HGNs have either 1 JJ for helping with hills/turning or none in favor of more firepower or cooling.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 31 July 2014 - 04:35 PM.

[Ultimax]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

But, over the weekend I picked up a Heavy Metal. I've wanted one for ages, and at least wanted to own it and learn to play it. I'm typically a Stalker pilot, and not much for boating. I like balanced builds that can hold their own.

So, with that on the table, it really feels like my Highlanders are less durable than my Stalkers.

1) Highlanders got hit with 2x JJ nerfs.
2) Highlanders got hit with a torso twist speed nerf, making it harder to twist to spread/avoid damage.
3) Stalker hitboxes make them one of the toughest assaults in the game with a STD, this isn't in your mind.*



*This is a peculiarity due to how the Stalkers massive side torsos cover nearly all of it's CT from any angle that isn't dead on front/back, or directly underneath. When destroyed, those components remain and IIRC only 50% damage is transferred through those destroyed portions when hit, which continues to protect your CT as long as it's not damage that is dead on.


Hope that helps.

[RetroActive]

Vassago Rain, on 31 July 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

The highlander is really bad now, in my opinion.

FTFY

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

SamsungNinja, on 31 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

(build is LRM20, LRM10, AC10, 1xLPL, 2xML)

Hmm, drop the LRM 20 and 10, run 2 LRM 15's... drop the LPL for an additional ML, if you're hell bent on taking an AC, make it an Ultra5. Yes I know the jamming can be a pain, but at least the IS ac's seem to unjam faster than clan.

So try LRM15x2 MLx3 UAC5, rest of your tonnage goes to ammo and sinks. This means your lasers are firing in a singular range bracket, and you're doing the same damage as a gauss shell. the UAC5 is good for keeping mechs rocking, and chaining those LRM 15's can keep an enemy hurt at distance... if you've got a bit of tonnage to spare, upgrade to Arti IV and enjoy putting even more hurt out with those LRM's.

I know many would probably say my build there sucks, but hey if you're not going to go meta, at least go for "makes sense but doesn't break lore, and is efficient.

[Sandpit]

terrycloth, on 31 July 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ugh. I was tired of always being outgunned in a Jenner so I bought a Highlander to (over)compensate. Because it was the highest rated assault mech (that I could afford) on the rankings thread. And now I find out it's trash?

Apparently they didn't update the list for the nerfs?

(of course, my lack of success is probably just not knowing how to play assaults in general, since I tend to die after noticing that the rest of my team, that I was advancing behind, has somehow all vanished leaving me all alone against all the enemies)

if you are going by what forumites say, I'd suggest giving it a try yourself. I can't count how many times I've been told my 5LL Stalker was "useless" or "bad"

I have a highlander, it's a good mech, I do decent in it. I don't, however, try to sit in one spot as if I were on a pogo stick. The JJs still allow you to out turn just about anything in its weight class, it packs tons of armor, and can fill just about any role you want.

[El Bandito]

Buying Hero Highlander after JJ nerf patch? Talk about uninformed. At present, I'd rather just strip off all the JJs (maybe except one) from my 733C and make it a 90 ton Atlas. Paying 2 tons for really minor lift is bad deal, beyond 1 JJ for quick turns.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2014 - 04:47 PM.