80 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Just as the title says.

We can rage all we want about what "SHOULD" be done (ie, remove GH and rework the whole heat system), but at this point, it's wasted time and effort. One needs to simply accept, as long as the PGI 3 are in charge, Ghost Heat is here to stay. It has, for all intents and purposes, become a "core mechanic" of the MW:O game. All attempts at discussion on the matter fall universally on deaf ears, so please, just stop. Plus, whilst overly complicated, poorly implemented and such, it has been at least semi effective in it's given mission, even if there were dozens of better ways to get there.

So, what am I asking, exactly?

Well, TBH, the use of quirks, have breathed some degree of new life into some old and forgotten mechs, like the AWS. But in most cases, it's a start, but not really enough.

What would be a huge help, would be for the Awesome to be able to fire 3 PPCs without the GH, while keeping it's current quirks. For the HBK-4P to fire it's laser compliment without added melting. Even the Nova, realistically is insanely hot if you try to use the 12 Mlasers.

Plus...all these mechs were DESIGNED around those armaments. It makes no sense for them to be punished for using the weaponry they were engineered around.

Should an AWS get GH for a 4th PPC? Absolutely. 3 Large Lasers? Possibly. PPCs may be hotter, but they are also totally different weapons. Thus I could see it not having any advantages for Large Lasers. Plus it would simplify things, making it easy to keep track of what is GH free and what is not. And it would reward mechs for being built more closely to their intended roles.

*Note, when I say "Stock" weapons, I don't mean the mech has to stay 100% stock. Upgrades like DHS, etc, I am fine with. I mean, that loadouts that don't exceed their stock design. So removing the small laser in the head of an Awesome, or even upgrading it to a Medium, would have zero effect on it's PPC's GH. Adding a 4th PPC, switching to 3 Large Lasers, or 7+ Mediums, all would though, as they are not what the Mech was engineered around, and thus, conform to standard GH rules.

Do I have the idea perfectly formulated? Nope. But maybe we can bounce some ideas around the will get PGI's attention.

[BarHaid]

Yes please to this. This is good passive nudging to encourage stock play, while still allowing customization.

[WarHippy]

I like the idea, and I agree this would make for a more interesting and diverse game. It doesn't need to be a major undertaking if they do a few mechs every patch or at least every other patch, but I fear they will see it as too much of a burden right now and put it off. The problem is as they release new mechs that burden gets bigger even if they start adding "stock" quirks at release for new mechs.

[Khobai]

The awesome already got a huge buff. It really doesnt need anymore.

And stock mechs need a lot more than just removing ghost heat to fix whats wrong with them...

Best way to help stock mechs would be to buff SHS to 1.1 or 1.2 each.

[Wintersdark]

Khobai, on 01 August 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The awesome already got a huge buff. It really doesnt need anymore.

And stock mechs need a lot more than just removing ghost heat to fix whats wrong with them...

Best way to help stock mechs would be to buff SHS to 1.1 or 1.2 each.

You miss the point.

This isn't about the Awesome in particular, or about stock mechs - Bishop was pretty clear about that. This is about allowing mechs to use any stock weapon configurations without ghost heat. So, while the Awesome is an example, it's not limited to that.

[Malleus011]

+1 to the OP. This is good for the game on so many levels.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 01 August 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The awesome already got a huge buff. It really doesnt need anymore.

And stock mechs need a lot more than just removing ghost heat to fix whats wrong with them...

Best way to help stock mechs would be to buff SHS to 1.1 or 1.2 each.

Not looking to "encourage stock" per se, so much as to make make more stock-based variants, playable, and desirable. I for one get tired of seeing every Jager running Gauss or AC20s, Armless K2s, heavy ballistic packing Battlemasters, etc.


Of course, there will always be some, and that is OK, but I would love to see the "taxes" that PGI have levied be affecting people harder, the farther from stock they take their mechs, whereas I think people should be "rewarded" for using the designs more closely for what they were engineered for.


And no, the AWS is not fine now. It is a LOT better though. Nothing will ever fix it's hit boxes (probably the best we could hope for is a +10-15 pt boost to the front STs, too), and while cooler, it should not be punished for actually using the stock weapons is was given. the 8Q and 9M should be encouraged to run their PPCs/ERPPCs, the HKK it's 9 Mlasers, etc.

[CocoaJin]

This idea is worth entertaining

[Utilyan]

What you do is have it where there is a QUIRK that is unlocked by meeting specific criteria of loadouts. Quirks is magic......and one day the holy quirk will release urbanmech.



TL;DR QUIRKS






Edit: wanted to add this is a old idea, imagine quirks that cut across the lance too, if you run a centurion and treb where there is specific quirks unlocked for running specific loadouts with lancemates running specific loadouts Think in terms of "item sets" you might see on like diablo or dungeons and dragons but applied to mechs and even lances. Think of a synergy like 10% extra speed for running a steiner atlas scout lance. stuff like that.

Edited by Utilyan, 01 August 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[cranect]

I definitely like the OP's idea. I had been thinking something similar for a long time.

[0bsidion]

I think this is an interesting idea for the most part. Not sure I agree on the Nova though. I own the Nova and I think it might be wildly OP without ghost heat.

[Deathlike]

Good luck with the idea, but it's not happening anytime soon.

When an idea makes too much sense, it's a guarantee it isn't happening, or it's not happening the way you intend it to be.

[Bishop Steiner]

0bsidion, on 01 August 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I think this is an interesting idea for the most part. Not sure I agree on the Nova though. I own the Nova and I think it might be wildly OP without ghost heat.

I own them too. It take some serious fire discipline not to overheat with the 12 mediums, to the point, you realistically are about as well off simply carrying the 6, and something else. There's a reason none of the Compies bother with the 12 Mediums. Even with 6 MPL or ER Mediums, I still see a lot of shut down Novas.

[3rdworld]

I think the new idea for Gauss & PPCs, shows just how poorly ghost heat works.

Take the Gauss & 2PPCs, is that inherently less of an issue than 3 PPCs? Hell no, if anything 3 ppcs is a worse build, yet it gets bent over the barrel by ghost heat.

Ghost heat is far to exploitable, and needs to be sent back to the drawing board for an overhaul.

Edited by 3rdworld, 01 August 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[Deathlike]

3rdworld, on 01 August 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I think the new idea for Gauss & PPCs, shows just how poorly ghost heat works.

If Paul... had a clue.

[Yokaiko]

BarHaid, on 01 August 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yes please to this. This is good passive nudging to encourage stock play, while still allowing customization.

No one is going to play stock IS mechs except for a few (vocal) purists. At least not mechs with ammo.

0bsidion, on 01 August 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I think this is an interesting idea for the most part. Not sure I agree on the Nova though. I own the Nova and I think it might be wildly OP without ghost heat.

It would be the same thing is is now, unless it gets the drop on you, you just bait till it overheats and then kill it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

No one is going to play stock IS mechs except for a few (vocal) purists. At least not mechs with ammo.

again, you are missing the point. I am trying to encourage closer to stock weapons, roles and such, not "devout stock mech" play. Whether you pack case, or swap your ammo to the bloody legs have no impact on whether your mech gets ghost heat for running the 3 ER PPCs it was designed around.

[Wolfways]

But...if this happens then MWO will be more like BT! Unfortunately I think that's something PGI are trying to avoid

But as someone who only pilots stock weapon loadouts anyway i totally agree with the OP +1,000,000 likes

[Will9761]

I agree, it does sound pretty foolish to add ghost heat to canon loadouts. If you overcompensated for more weapons, I could understand that.

[Lyoto Machida]

I wholeheartedly agree with this idea.

Having said that, we'll most likely never see it implemented.