80 replies to this topic

[Maxx Blue]

I could get onboard with some form of this. The basic premise seems to be, "A Mech should not trigger ghost heat when using it's stock weapon loadout." Now, you can argue whether that should be FULLY stock (no upgrades), or all stock weapons, or simply no ghost heat on the type of weapon(s) that it has too many of in stock form.

Ideally, I would think it wouldn't be game-breaking if you just said, "If a mech comes stock with enough of weapon X to cause ghost heat, they are allowed to fire that many without ghost heat regardless of what mods they make." However, that might be somewhat tricky to implement so I would also accept a totally-stock weapons loadout. You can change upgrades, armor and ammo, but have to keep the exact stock weapon loadout to get the no-ghost-heat benefit. That might be slightly easier to code, and less likely to be exploited. I would NOT go so far as to say you only get no-ghost-heat if you are TOTALLY stock because DHS are basically required on all mechs, and it would help out clan mechs, which all have locked upgrades and DHS anyway, much more than IS mechs.

It seems like a fair trade to be exempt from Ghost Heat if you run stock weapons. It would certainly be much nicer to new folks by keeping them from getting fried quite so bad when they take out a stock mech with ghost-heat-loadout. It isn't more of a priority than CW, but it would be a nice thing to do for stock-purists and new players who can't afford to upgrade and customize instantly like most of us veterans.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 01 August 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[CygnusX7]

Good idea. Too bad about the deaf ears.

[Yokaiko]

CygnusX7, on 01 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Good idea. Too bad about the deaf ears.

They could go back an un-nerf the IS energy weapons as well. Slas and Mlas are still left overs from CB.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

They could go back an un-nerf the IS energy weapons as well. Slas and Mlas are still left overs from CB.

total agreement here. Though I would KILL to run IS pulse lasers on my Clan MEchs.

[Roadkill]

While I agree with the suggestion, it'd be a big step in the right direction even if it only applied to unmodified Stock designs.

[RedDragon]

Let's see...

Makes sense in game terms.
Gets the game closer to lore.
Encourages diversity in load outs.
Isn't overly convoluted.
Is something the community may actually like/want.

No way this will ever be implemented.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

I own them too. It take some serious fire discipline not to overheat with the 12 mediums, to the point, you realistically are about as well off simply carrying the 6, and something else. There's a reason none of the Compies bother with the 12 Mediums. Even with 6 MPL or ER Mediums, I still see a lot of shut down Novas.

True. I did a few runs with the stock loadout and it's pretty easy to get carried away and overheat.It has way more lasers than is practical to use on chainfire, and there are very few situations where I'd seriously consider an alpha strike. I guess a 12 ERML alpha would still build up 60 points of heat even without ghost heat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 01 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

While I agree with the suggestion, it'd be a big step in the right direction even if it only applied to unmodified Stock designs.

Sure. I would also say that one shouldn't suddenly be prone to GH is one "downgrades" armament. Running 7 MLasers and 2 Slasers on an HBK and it getting GH'd, while 9 lasers does not?

Basically, anytime something is run that would enter GH normally, that is beyond stock, then it should still get GH. But a mech should never have it for running it's stock loadout or less.

[Bhael Fire]

I'd LOVE to be able to alpha 12 ER Medium Lasers on my Nova without blowing up.

[RedDragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Sure. I would also say that one shouldn't suddenly be prone to GH is one "downgrades" armament. Running 7 MLasers and 2 Slasers on an HBK and it getting GH'd, while 9 lasers does not?

Basically, anytime something is run that would enter GH normally, that is beyond stock, then it should still get GH. But a mech should never have it for running it's stock loadout or less.

Basically, this amounts to sized (or type specific) hardpoints. Which isn't a bad thing, quite the contrary. Hunchback has 9 M-Laser hardpoints (which fit MLs or SLs). Put something other in them and GH kicks in.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 01 August 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The awesome already got a huge buff. It really doesnt need anymore.

Lolololololololololol

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

total agreement here. Though I would KILL to run IS pulse lasers on my Clan MEchs.

Single shot uACs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Single shot uACs.

yeah, I am OK with the acs for balance reasons, but clan pulse lasers....just suck. I'd trade range for beam duration, ANY day.

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

yeah, I am OK with the acs for balance reasons, but clan pulse lasers....just suck. I'd trade range for beam duration, ANY day.

All pulse lasers suck.

The basic math is that for mpls and spl I can fit a second standard (or er as it were) and do MORE damage for the same burn. LPLs aren't usually worth the hit in crits, weight, AND heat.

[eblackthorn]

I think any mech running SHS should not suffer from ghost heat. They are punished enough already

[Augustus Martelus II]

Khobai, on 01 August 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The awesome already got a huge buff. It really doesnt need anymore.

And stock mechs need a lot more than just removing ghost heat to fix whats wrong with them...

Best way to help stock mechs would be to buff SHS to 1.1 or 1.2 each.

DHS still need to be better than SHS since in IS mechs they take 3 slots...if they get too close to DHS, DHS will become useless.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Just as the title says.

We can rage all we want about what "SHOULD" be done (ie, remove GH and rework the whole heat system), but at this point, it's wasted time and effort. One needs to simply accept, as long as the PGI 3 are in charge, Ghost Heat is here to stay. It has, for all intents and purposes, become a "core mechanic" of the MW:O game. All attempts at discussion on the matter fall universally on deaf ears, so please, just stop. Plus, whilst overly complicated, poorly implemented and such, it has been at least semi effective in it's given mission, even if there were dozens of better ways to get there.

So, what am I asking, exactly?

Well, TBH, the use of quirks, have breathed some degree of new life into some old and forgotten mechs, like the AWS. But in most cases, it's a start, but not really enough.

What would be a huge help, would be for the Awesome to be able to fire 3 PPCs without the GH, while keeping it's current quirks. For the HBK-4P to fire it's laser compliment without added melting. Even the Nova, realistically is insanely hot if you try to use the 12 Mlasers.

Plus...all these mechs were DESIGNED around those armaments. It makes no sense for them to be punished for using the weaponry they were engineered around.

Should an AWS get GH for a 4th PPC? Absolutely. 3 Large Lasers? Possibly. PPCs may be hotter, but they are also totally different weapons. Thus I could see it not having any advantages for Large Lasers. Plus it would simplify things, making it easy to keep track of what is GH free and what is not. And it would reward mechs for being built more closely to their intended roles.

*Note, when I say "Stock" weapons, I don't mean the mech has to stay 100% stock. Upgrades like DHS, etc, I am fine with. I mean, that loadouts that don't exceed their stock design. So removing the small laser in the head of an Awesome, or even upgrading it to a Medium, would have zero effect on it's PPC's GH. Adding a 4th PPC, switching to 3 Large Lasers, or 7+ Mediums, all would though, as they are not what the Mech was engineered around, and thus, conform to standard GH rules.

Do I have the idea perfectly formulated? Nope. But maybe we can bounce some ideas around the will get PGI's attention.

why?
seriously

Think about it, what would be the point? This isn't going to make stock loadouts more popular. Heck, even new players dont' start in stock mechs now. Seems like a lot of wasted time, energy, resources, and testing that could be put into do something else.

This game is not centered around stock loadouts. Never has been and no matter what you do for them, it never will be. Even if you did this, you really think the majority of stock loadouts will be used or "good"? Not really. Most players like the customizing, that's one of the biggest draws. I just don't see a reason for this. Not that it's a bad idea, I just don't see the purpose and how it would improve game play or anything. The only thing it MIGHT do, is give stock leagues a few more shots before overheating. That's it.
Now adding a "disable ghost heat" button in premium private matches? go for it.

Edited by Sandpit, 01 August 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Just as the title says.

We can rage all we want about what "SHOULD" be done (ie, remove GH and rework the whole heat system), but at this point, it's wasted time and effort. One needs to simply accept, as long as the PGI 3 are in charge, Ghost Heat is here to stay. It has, for all intents and purposes, become a "core mechanic" of the MW:O game. All attempts at discussion on the matter fall universally on deaf ears, so please, just stop. Plus, whilst overly complicated, poorly implemented and such, it has been at least semi effective in it's given mission, even if there were dozens of better ways to get there.

So, what am I asking, exactly?

Well, TBH, the use of quirks, have breathed some degree of new life into some old and forgotten mechs, like the AWS. But in most cases, it's a start, but not really enough.

What would be a huge help, would be for the Awesome to be able to fire 3 PPCs without the GH, while keeping it's current quirks. For the HBK-4P to fire it's laser compliment without added melting. Even the Nova, realistically is insanely hot if you try to use the 12 Mlasers.

Plus...all these mechs were DESIGNED around those armaments. It makes no sense for them to be punished for using the weaponry they were engineered around.

Should an AWS get GH for a 4th PPC? Absolutely. 3 Large Lasers? Possibly. PPCs may be hotter, but they are also totally different weapons. Thus I could see it not having any advantages for Large Lasers. Plus it would simplify things, making it easy to keep track of what is GH free and what is not. And it would reward mechs for being built more closely to their intended roles.

*Note, when I say "Stock" weapons, I don't mean the mech has to stay 100% stock. Upgrades like DHS, etc, I am fine with. I mean, that loadouts that don't exceed their stock design. So removing the small laser in the head of an Awesome, or even upgrading it to a Medium, would have zero effect on it's PPC's GH. Adding a 4th PPC, switching to 3 Large Lasers, or 7+ Mediums, all would though, as they are not what the Mech was engineered around, and thus, conform to standard GH rules.

Do I have the idea perfectly formulated? Nope. But maybe we can bounce some ideas around the will get PGI's attention.

I have said this many times when GH was coming.

The "stock" loadout a mech needs to be GH free FOR THAT WEAPON ONLY. Like you said, the PPC for a AWS would be 3 before GH, but NO OTHER WEAPON. So mechs would be able to run there "stock" load out FREE AND CLEAR instead of being forced to do something they we never made to do.

[Sandpit]

SirLANsalot, on 01 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I have said this many times when GH was coming.

The "stock" loadout a mech needs to be GH free FOR THAT WEAPON ONLY. Like you said, the PPC for a AWS would be 3 before GH, but NO OTHER WEAPON. So mechs would be able to run there "stock" load out FREE AND CLEAR instead of being forced to do something they we never made to do.

again, what's the point? Stock loadouts weren't used before ghost heat. That's not going to change. People want to customize their rides. They aren't going to start taking stock loadouts because of this.

[Yokaiko]

Sandpit, on 01 August 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

again, what's the point? Stock loadouts weren't used before ghost heat. That's not going to change. People want to customize their rides. They aren't going to start taking stock loadouts because of this.

A few would.

Off the top of my head, AWES-8Q, HBK-4P, Nova Prime, Warhawk Prime.....all of those cook the hell out of themselves stock.