80 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 August 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

I think it's far too frequent that ideas with a lot of agreement die because the forum fosters dissension over harmony.

Heh

So far as it goes, I just flat detest ghostheat.

[MischiefSC]

No ghost heat on stock mechs...

Okay. Yeah. I see that. It's very 'meta', but so is Ghost Heat itself.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

This appears to be the first step toward both the elimination of ghost heat and the promotion of stock builds (and/or limited hard-points). Two things I endorse and believe will greatly help balance the game.

I am fully onboard with all changes that help return MWO to its battletech roots.

[Deathlike]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 01 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

I am fully onboard with all changes that help return MWO to its battletech roots.

I thought that this was "A BattleTech Game".

Edited by Deathlike, 01 August 2014 - 10:13 PM.

[Lykaon]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

What would be a huge help, would be for the Awesome to be able to fire 3 PPCs without the GH, while keeping it's current quirks. For the HBK-4P to fire it's laser compliment without added melting. Even the Nova, realistically is insanely hot if you try to use the 12 Mlasers.

Plus...all these mechs were DESIGNED around those armaments. It makes no sense for them to be punished for using the weaponry they were engineered around.

Being designed to mount 8 medium lasers is not the same as being engineered to fire all at once.

A very brief 0.5 second delay between firing does not trigger ghostheat.So an Awesome 8Q is far better off with improved cooling efficency than ignoring ghostheat if you fire two PPC wait literally half a second and fire the third.

I'm not a fan of the ghostheat mechanics but like you said they are pretty much "core" and here to stay and have sorta effected some repair to the problem of boating.

If I must work with ghostheat I may as well embrace it as a means of reducing 30 point pinpoint front loaded alphas so no thanks on adding another mech to the FLD alpha spammers club.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lykaon, on 02 August 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Being designed to mount 8 medium lasers is not the same as being engineered to fire all at once.

A very brief 0.5 second delay between firing does not trigger ghostheat.So an Awesome 8Q is far better off with improved cooling efficency than ignoring ghostheat if you fire two PPC wait literally half a second and fire the third.

I'm not a fan of the ghostheat mechanics but like you said they are pretty much "core" and here to stay and have sorta effected some repair to the problem of boating.

If I must work with ghostheat I may as well embrace it as a means of reducing 30 point pinpoint front loaded alphas so no thanks on adding another mech to the FLD alpha spammers club.

Yes, because the awesome is so fearsome, FLD or not.

[o0Marduk0o]

Oh look, another player who thinks that it should be possible to alpha all weapons, especially if you boat them. Ghost Heat does not hit the Nova because nobody would Alpha all 12 ML in the first place.

[Bishop Steiner]

o0Marduk0o, on 02 August 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

Oh look, another player who thinks that it should be possible to alpha all weapons, especially if you boat them. Ghost Heat does not hit the Nova because nobody would Alpha all 12 ML in the first place.

sadly, not true.


Well, not so sad when they are on the other team.

[o0Marduk0o]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

sadly, not true.


Well, not so sad when they are on the other team.

Well, noobs would do it. The Nova was not made to fire all its weapons at once when using 12 ER ML. Same as the 4 ER PPC Warhawk. Ghost Heat isn't changing that.

Without Ghostheat you could fire 12 ER SL and just gain about 25% heat, with short cooldown, 48 dmg and quite short burn time. Now you have to use 6 ER SL which run totally cool or 12 with 2 volleys.

Just get some weapon groups and don't alpha all day long and you are fine with any boat, even with GH.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 02 August 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Wintersdark]

o0Marduk0o, on 02 August 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well, noobs would do it. The Nova was not made to fire all its weapons at once when using 12 ER ML. Same as the 4 ER PPC Warhawk. Ghost Heat isn't changing that.

Without Ghostheat you could fire 12 ER SL and just gain about 25% heat, with short cooldown, 48 dmg and quite short burn time. Now you have to use 6 ER SL which run totally cool or 12 with 2 volleys.

Just get some weapon groups and don't alpha all day long and you are fine with any boat, even with GH.

The problem is, Ghost heat creates a wierd situation where your Nova can fire all 6 ML's and be at, say, 50% heat (I forget exactly where).. you wait what you think is half a second, fire the others... but wait! It was .49s! Now you've gone from ~3% to 50% firing 6, and from 49% to omgwtfI'mshutdownfor20secondsandnearlydeadwtf firing 6 more.

Swap out 6 ERML for 6ERSL? Now you can fire 6 ERSL for 25% heat and 6 ML for 50% heat... or all twelve (even if you're trying to fire one group than the other) and ...? 150% heat! Because you use the heat penalty of the hottest weapon in the linked ghost heat group, you're using the heat penalty for firing 12 ERML's in that situation.

What's really a laugh is that you can fire 12 ERSL's and not even come close to shutting down, because their ghost heat penalty is so much lower.

[o0Marduk0o]

Wintersdark, on 02 August 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

What's really a laugh is that you can fire 12 ERSL's and not even come close to shutting down, because their ghost heat penalty is so much lower.

You are at ~80% when using 12 SL and having just base heat at start. Doing this is not effective but the SL heat is low, so together with ghost heat it will be lower than other weapons. Basically just don't do it, whatever weapon you use.

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 02 August 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

The problem is, Ghost heat creates a wierd situation where your Nova can fire all 6 ML's and be at, say, 50% heat (I forget exactly where).. you wait what you think is half a second, fire the others... but wait! It was .49s! Now you've gone from ~3% to 50% firing 6, and from 49% to omgwtfI'mshutdownfor20secondsandnearlydeadwtf firing 6 more.

Swap out 6 ERML for 6ERSL? Now you can fire 6 ERSL for 25% heat and 6 ML for 50% heat... or all twelve (even if you're trying to fire one group than the other) and ...? 150% heat! Because you use the heat penalty of the hottest weapon in the linked ghost heat group, you're using the heat penalty for firing 12 ERML's in that situation.

What's really a laugh is that you can fire 12 ERSL's and not even come close to shutting down, because their ghost heat penalty is so much lower.

this? this is exactly why Paul shouldn't be allowed to make decisions regarding balance solely on his own any more. A convoluted, complicated mechanic like this was his "best" idea...

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 01 August 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

You miss the point.

This isn't about the Awesome in particular, or about stock mechs - Bishop was pretty clear about that. This is about allowing mechs to use any stock weapon configurations without ghost heat. So, while the Awesome is an example, it's not limited to that.

Hunchback-4P Would benefit from this IIRC.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 August 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Hunchback-4P Would benefit from this IIRC.

Yup, it'd be able to fire 8 (stock is 8ML 1SL).

Edit: Unless they changed the IS Ghost Heat rules for ML to include SL in a linked group like they did CERML and CERSL, in which case it could fire 9ML's.

Edited by Wintersdark, 02 August 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well that goes to show you I don't use the Mech... I thought it was 9 mediums not 8.

[Wintersdark]

It's still an increase over the 6 it can currently fire without ghost heat.

Sadly, I'd be fall-out-of-chair surprised if they ever backed off on ghost heat, for any reason.

[Livewyr]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 August 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

I think it's far too frequent that ideas with a lot of agreement die because the forum fosters dissension over harmony.

The hell it does.

[Wintersdark]

Livewyr, on 02 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

The hell it does.

Shut up. The **** do you know? You're on an island, buddy.

[BarHaid]

Ahhhh... There we go. Off topic is such a comforting place.

[Khanahar]

I am generally in support of such ideas, and would love this with a sensible implementation. (Also, general boosts for running weapons stock, like maybe 10% faster CD on all weapons, would be awesome.)

But you would have to have an exception for the Nova... that would just be too brutal.