76 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Edit/Clarification: Due to some issues with the discussion allow me to be brief about the Mad Dog/Vulture and Mk2 differences. The original design is the 'STANDARD' design of the Mad Dog/Vulture and is what was seen during the clan invasion. The Mk II variant was created after the clans were in the IS, Clan Ghost Bear had to redesign the Mad Dog/Vulture for production due to limitations of IS production facilities. The mech itself is FUNCTIONALLY THE SAME, and only varies by its aesthetic and technology differences.

ALSO ------- THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF CLAN VS IS MECH TECHNOLOGY. Simply a discussion of the aesthetic design choices between the 2 and the choice to take inspiration for the MWO design from either, or both.

So, as we all know, the clan mechs we got are but half of the initial wave of invaders. We still have 8 more mechs coming in the future, including the Mad Dog/Vulture. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but the Mad Dog/Vulture is probably my favorite clan mech of all time (running head to head with the Summoner only for MW2 demo disc nostalgia reasons).

However, I also realize that the Mad Dog/Vulture technicaly has two designs. The first being the original and standard Clan design that was brought in during the invasion. However, Clan Ghost Bear designed a second version of the Mad Dog/Vulture while in the Inner Sphere having to deal with the IS' inferior production facilities and technology. This was introduced in Mechwarrior 4 as the Vulture Mk II, and accepted as canon as the Mad Dog/Vulture Variant Mk II.

You can look them up if you'd like, but what are your thoughts on the way PGI should go about designing this chassis as I'm sure they wouldn't create an entirely new model for a single variant (grant, the Mk II doesn't show up for several years).

A. Design based on the original Mad Dog/Vulture.
B. Based on the Mk II Variant created by Clan Ghost Bear while in the IS.
C. Use both as inspiration and create a design paying homage to both.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 August 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[Scratx]

Obviously, A. The Mk II's aesthetics are quite close to the Mad Dog, anyway.

And by the way? They're in practice two different mechs, not variants of the same mech. Otherwise, I can say the Mad Dog is a Timber Wolf variant because many of its parts use the Timber Wolf's moulds.

Edited by Scratx, 02 August 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[FupDup]

I actually preferred the "MK II" sort of appearance from MW4. The chin turret looked cool, and the high-mounted arms fit the mech's personality of sitting at the back and picking people off (the traditional low-mounted bendistraw arms are more for brawling than fire support). The higher arms also help make it less outright inferior to the Mad Cat.


However, I will soon be burned as a heretic for committing this sacrilege, because grognardism. I must activate my preemptive flameshield!

Edited by FupDup, 02 August 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[LoneMaverick]

DIS ONE!

Honestly will go better with the clunk-boxy, no rounded things allowed design PGI already has better than the other one anyhoo.

wonder if they can get the chin-lasers to work with the arm reticule though, that'd be sweet

Edited by LoneMaverick, 02 August 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[mike29tw]

FupDup, on 02 August 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

I actually preferred the "MK II" sort of appearance from MW4. The chin turret looked cool, and the high-mounted arms fit the mech's personality of sitting at the back and picking people off (the traditional low-mounted bendistraw arms are more for brawling than fire support). The higher arms also help make it less outright inferior to the Mad Cat.


However, I will soon be burned as a heretic for committing this sacrilege, because grognardism. I must activate my preemptive flameshield!

I prefer the Mk.II as well, but only if the chin turret follows our arm reticle.

[Utilyan]

Original = Clan MAD DOG. That other boxy sht is IS-vulture.

[Sudden]

please stay in canon. mw4 maddog..............ugh need I say more

[Davers]

The Clan Incasion! You know, just incase

Edited since the OP fixed the post title and ruined my joke.

Edited by Davers, 03 August 2014 - 12:30 AM.

[Elkfire]

You know, it always struck me as odd that the designations between IS and Clan for are mixed up for the Vulture/Mad Dog. The Timber Wolf is that mech's original (Clan) name, and the IS name for it is the Mad Cat, while the Mad Dog is the Clan designation for that mech, and the Vulture is its Inner Sphere nickname. Seems backwards in the Vulture/Mad Dog's case.

Edited by Elkfire, 02 August 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR EDIT/CLARIFICATION, DO NOT MAKE THIS AN IS/CLAN FLAME WAR.

[Kilo 40]

no need for a clarification. The MkII is stupid and looks bad. if you like it, you should feel stupid and bad.

[Bad Frosty]

The Mad Cat is a name that comes from the combined features of the Marauder and Catapult. MAD and CAT?

The Vulture is so-named because it preys upon weak 'mechs. I read that in one of the technical readouts,3050 I believe. It has so little armor, and the torso is just massive, albeit narrow, so it employs ranged weapons.

In any case, I like the original design best. Four gun barrels is more than enough for me, thank God they've only got pulse lasers in there. It's when you have to face the hexagonal omni-pods that you know you're in trouble. A 'mech with the fire-power to-weight ratio of a Vulture could be carrying anything.

[Elkfire]

Bad Frosty, on 02 August 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

The Mad Cat is a name that comes from the combined features of the Marauder and Catapult. MAD and CAT?

The Vulture is so-named because it preys upon weak 'mechs. I read that in one of the technical readouts,3050 I believe.

Well, yeah. It's still weird that the Vulture's original name is so similar to the Timber Wolf's nickname. I suppose we can chalk it up to an oversight somewhere by the people who came up with the names.

Edited by Elkfire, 02 August 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Bad Frosty]

Jordan Weismann is the people who came up with the names. He basically created this whole universe.

I forgive him for any oversight in naming 'mechs, because he gave us 'mechs with awesome names like Glass Spider, t Hatamoto-Chi, and my personal favorite, the Victor.

[BumbleBee]

The Mad Dog is my favourite mech and I would certainly buy a reinforcements pack if one is included.

I hope they do something of a cross between the original and the new design so it fits in with the Mechs already in game. It is one of the better looking first wave Mechs, but a bit of a tweak might be needed.

I did this model of the Mad Dog MKIV years ago, still not finished and with some placeholder parts/panels. Posting it just coz.

[El Bandito]

I prefer the original design. Much more sleek, alien, and menacing looking. However, knowing PGi's design limits, they will make it a lazy boxy mess anyway.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 August 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[Keeshu]

Assuming you've looked at the clan section recently, you've probably already seen my absurdly large Mad Dog Thread.
http://mwomercs.com/...mad-dog-thread/

Personally I prefer the original, and it is my #1 favorite Battletech design (Osprey is #2, Shadowcat is #3.... They look similar don't they?)

Also lack of images in a thread about a comparison of visuals? What is this madness?



and for some copy pasta:
Classic Visuals vs MW4 Visuals: (in no particular order):
#1. The MW4 Vulture has Chin-strapped lasers which act like arms.
#2. The MW4 Vulture now boxes in the guns on the arms. Which makes them more bulky+boxy, and isn't just an exposed gun for an arm. This may have been done to make it look more like the Timber Wolf, and/or due to laziness by copy + pasting the Timber Wolf Arms onto the Vulture.
#3. The MW4 Vulture's arms are shorter than the classic.
#4. The MW4 Vulture's upper arms are horizontal instead of being diagonal.
#5. The MW4 Vulture's Side Torsos have holes for 4x8, the Classic has 3x7 holes.
#6. The MW4 Vulture adds a vertically flat section between the Missile tubes and the part that goes diagonally backwards.
#7. The MW4 Vulture rounds out the bumps on the front of the nose so it doesn't look like there's nipples on it's face. (While I prefer classic over MW4 usually, I actually like that they did this). And I just want to mention that I grew up with MW2, which does not have the huge bumps on the side of the nose, and in MW4 it just blends in with the mech so I didn't notice it there (but now I do now I know it's there).
#8. The MW4 Vulture adds another angle on it's "nose". Which makes it a little more bulky, and more like a nose.
#9. Overall the legs are the same, but the "shin pads" are more boxy +Bulky in Mechwarrior 4, while the classic is all rounded and much thinner.
#10. Overall the MW4 Vulture is wider than the Classic Mad Dog in all sections. With the arms being debatable due to MW4 showing the Large + medium laser holes vertically (even though the mediums were moved to the CT) whereas the classic has them horizontally.
Due to all these changes, and thinking the Vulture was a different mech when I first played Mechwarrior 4, I always call the classic design "Mad Dog" and the Mechwarrior 4 design "Vulture".
#11. MW4 Vulture replaces the vents and random boxes on the side of the torso with the faction logo for the faction you are playing as.





Now, I wouldn't mind seeing both versions as it would please both old school and the MW4 crowds. The Ghost Bears can have the MK II version, while the Smoke Jaguars and everyone else can have the original design. It'll be the first mech in the game to have another configuration that has a different physical look (and probably different quirks. especially with those CT lasers).
Chances are they may just make a new and/or hybrid design though. I'm still hoping for the original though.

[mike29tw]

El Bandito, on 02 August 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

I prefer the original design. Much more sleek, alien, and menacing looking. However, knowing PGi's design limits, they will make it a lazy boxy mess anyway.

I hope Alex breaks some of his own rules for future mechs.

The recent mechs all look pretty samey and uninspiring.

[Kilo 40]

mike29tw, on 02 August 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

The recent mechs all look pretty samey and uninspiring.

the clan mechs? no way.

Now if you mean all the recent IS mechs, I couldn't agree more.

[MauttyKoray]

Yes I've seen the thread before, however this was meant to be a discussion about the direction of the design the Mad Dog/Vulture that people hope will be taken for the MWO redesign.

I can't find the picture I'm looking for, but the bumps on the MW4 Mk2 are still there, just not nipples. This picture shows that, where as the ingame MW4 doesn't really. (note: this is actually a papercraft using the ingame model for MW4)

Sudden, on 02 August 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

please stay in canon. mw4 maddog..............ugh need I say more

The MW4's Mad Dog/Vulture Mk II was accepted as cannon and given the backstory I mentioned above, its on Sarna as well as a variant under the original. Please note that this is an aesthetics discussion, not a canon/lore one. We're talking about the mech's design and how it should be approached considering the two design variants we have from previous material and the design choices that have been made with the current clan mechs already released.

Personally I'd love to see a boxier style like the Mk II, however the chin turret is most likely impossible as the hit boxes in MWO have very strict and limited places. Arms are arms, torsos are torsos, etc, and none have had a 'special' hit box like MW4 used for the chin turret.

My choices would be to have the beefier legs, arms and CT of the Mk II with a boxier (but similar) take on the side torsos. I prefer the design of the missile bank shoulder from the original over the Mk II's. This would probably also lead to the change to a dual-laser arm like the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat has which I would prefer over the original design as it would fit in better.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 August 2014 - 12:13 AM.