55 replies to this topic

[CMetz]

Honestly, I'd even be willing to give IGP (yes I said IGP because they set the pricing structures) the benefit of the doubt here. If they were to give me a button to strip cockpit items from my inventory screen I would be happy. Or just let me install a cockpit item in a mech and when I do so have it strip the item out of the mech it was in. I don't need multiples. I just want an easy strip option.

[Joe Ong]

i entirely agree with this.
Like x1000

[SamsungNinja]

Totally support this. I have an entire set of items that I just like to rock in certain 'mechs. There's no way I'm dropping $20 on each of the hero and clan 'mechs I own, not to mention the c-bill variants.

Just let me have my Pressure Chamber, Air Freshener, and Oscillating fan in all the IS 'mechs I can shake a stick at.

If we're talking money, I would buy a LOT more cockpit items that I've had my eye on, if I knew I could hang them in as many 'mechs as I wanted. Rasalhague swag in all my Stalkers, Disco Inferno action in all my Clan 'mechs. Fuzzy Dice and Hula Girls in anything that feels baller enough to handle them. AND THE CHRISTMAS LIGHTS! Frankly, I'd have bought every color available if I would have been able to put them in all my 'mechs.

I had a boss once (retail) that ran a bunch of mom-and-pop shops in my college town. He insisted on getting the maximum amount of profit out of each individual item. He'd let a piece of inventory age on the shelf for months or even years without even considering lowering the price, because that would represent (in his mind) a loss of profit. He failed to understand that if he would have been willing to accept a slimmer profit margin, he would have moved more product and, as a result, had more net revenue.

The result was that one of his oldest businesses failed slowly, over the span of many years, due to incremental loss of revenue. Meanwhile, his son turned another one of the family businesses around by having regular sales to move stagnating product.

I feel like it's the same concept here, even if the items are digital (a distinction that I find becoming less and less relevant over time). I know that I would be far more willing to buy up those "like it" items if I could hang them in all my 'mechs. Until then, I'll just constrain myself to the "love it" and "can't live without it" items.

I'm sorry newtonian demonstrator and space pug, but your time to be bought is not yet here

Just...

...think of the Scented Candles. They deserve to be owned.

Please?

Edited by SamsungNinja, 04 August 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[Gooner]

I completely agree with everything the OP said.

I currently own 14 mechs and 1 module (advanced zoom). No idea which mech its equipped to, don't even really care. If I play 8 matches in a 2 hour session it will probably be in 8 different mechs. I can't be bothered to swap the module over before every match and I don't play enough to earn the CBills to buy duplicates. Some other modules sound useful but at 6 million each its just not worth it.

But if buying a module meant it could be equipped to all mechs simultaneously (for the same price), I would definitely get 2-3 more and take the time to mix and match based on my individual mech's loadouts.

Lets be honest though, the whole Free 2 Play market (not just MWO - all F2P games) is designed to be so grindy and repetitive and inconvenient that the player says "sod it, I'll just buy this for real money". We are supposed to spend all our cbills on modules so the next time a new mech comes out, we spend real money. This won't change.

Edited by Gooner, 04 August 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[TercieI]

/signed. HB nails another one.

I hadn't even realized that I've totally stopped thinking about cockpit items, but I did think about buying one lately and decided "nah, I'll just lose it..." so, yeah. And modules...ugh.

[BourbonFaucet]

The solution that'd make me happy would simply be a "recollect all cockpit items" and a "recollect all modules" button that simply strips all said items from all your 'mechs and returns them to your inventory.

[Mechteric]

Totally agree, I have several cockpit items that I never bother to put on my mechs just because its a pain to have to constantly move them around my many mechs that I change out to on a regular basis. Whats the point of having them if I can't be bothered to install them?

[Deathlike]

CapperDeluxe, on 04 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Totally agree, I have several cockpit items that I never bother to put on my mechs just because its a pain to have to constantly move them around my many mechs that I change out to on a regular basis. Whats the point of having them if I can't be bothered to install them?

This has a lot to do with the mechlab interface... where it is simply inconvenient to find engines and modules... let alone cockpit items. Engines and modules are a fair grind (well, it takes a while to get them) and people who are trying to value their time and C-bills don't have to time to dig through their massive mech list to find one thing. You would think that adding convenience would be better than an intentional/unintentional C-bill (and MC sink) to find what you want. It grinds on people unnecessarily.

You would think UI 2.0 would have supported it for everyone's benefit, but the longer this isn't there, it only supports the notion of a terrible C-bill sink that would put people off...

Edited by Deathlike, 04 August 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Maxx Blue]

Since you realize it is a CBill sink, and generally an annoyance to encourage people to buy CBills or spend on premium time to earn faster, let me ask this:

Would you be willing to buy a module that was universal with MC? CBill modules would still be available as single-mech-usable items, but if you want to buy it once and have it available for EVERY mech, you must pay MC. Would you go for that?

They are going to have to have annoying, expensive grindy stuff like this to encourage people to buy premium time or CBills directly. This is a free-to-play game so that can't realistically go away. Modules and their pricing are probably as expensive as they are specifically because they can only be purchased with CBills, and the fact that they are annoying to move helps PGI push people into spending real money. I'm not sure if they can give up on that. What they MIGHT be able to do is let you spend money directly to save the hassle, and to price it more attractively in the process. Would you spend 1000MC for a mech module and 300MC for a weapon module if buying it once let you use it on every mech simultaneously? That is something that you might get traction with, but making modules universal with a CBill cost is going to take away one of the things encouraging people to spend REAL money, and I don't see that happening.

Now, cockpit flair, I could see that MAYBE being universal with no pricing changes. No one needs flair, and the the annoyance of swapping it around surely outweighs the fun of having it on your mech real fast if you swap mechs alot. It certainly stopped being fun for you, and I don't see why most people wouldn't end up in the same place. That one I totally agree would probably generate more cash if what you bought could be equipped on every mech at the same time. Flair is already an impulse-buy type item, and making it annoying to use it going to kill the desire to buy any real fast.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 04 August 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Gnume]

Heck, at this point, I would be happy with the ability to simply move the module/cockpit item from 1 mech to another from within the MechLab on the current mech I am viewing. Allow me to see how many I own, regardless if it is equipped, and if I so choose to Equip it, just have it de-equip from the other mech automatically.

[TLBFestus]

Your logic is impeccable Homeless Bill, but unfortunately for you and everyone else, all you will get is a bloody forehead from banging it against the brick wall this is PGI's mentality with respect to merchandising.

They just don't get it that players would spend more money if bangles and doo-dads (and in my opinion, Mechs) were cheaper or more universally applicable. Instead they stubbornly refuse to reconsider a change once their path is set.

Personally I have spent a pittance on colors and cockpit items, and will rarely if ever spend more. If they followed your suggestion not only would I drop $50 in a heartbeat, and spend small amounts incrementally and steadily, but the current spenders would too. I can't see how this would be a losing proposition for PGI, but convincing them of this is damn near impossible.

[Jman5]

Agreed. PGI this is such a stupidly obvious design problem that just makes things unfun. My unit wastes SO MUCH TIME because a couple guys can't find their modules.

Here is a thought: Create a tiered pricing system if you want a big ole money sink.

Tier 1: What we have now. You pay 3 million or whatever for your module and you get 1 that you can shuffle around as needed.
Teir 2: You pay double and now have infinite number of this modules.

As homeless Bill said, this is nothing but a horrible design decision that creates a needless hassle.

PGI, I dare you to come into this thread and justify it to us.

Edited by Jman5, 04 August 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

You know what I just realized after skimming through the OP? It's not just that I don't care about my own cockpit anymore. It's been ages since I bothered moving them around.

But it's very rare to spectate other players and see them having cockpit items. And the ones I do see, are usually the ones awarded from weekly challenges, or Founder items. I would wager that cockpit item sales could be improved drastically with OP's suggestion.

Of course! This may be the only sort of appeal PGI might listen to...

It's kinda funny how anyone that has a just a college sophomore level understanding of basic economics could create a more profitable, customer firendly, and overall successful pricing and purchase system than PGI has been limping along with for how many years now? Here's a hint: with regular games (with both single player AND multiplayer components) being priced at ~$50-60, depending on platform and maker, Charging $30 for ONE hero mech (Pretty Baby, also arguably one of the worst 'mechs available) is NOT a smart decision and $55 for one clan mech chassis (A la carte, 3 variants) is downright insulting as a player and just as a person. Let's not even get started on premium time pricing and the lack of premium "hours" that only tick down while playing.

[TLBFestus]

On the flip side, there would be a deafening scream from those who spent hundreds of dollars on Clan Mech packs if PGI were to suddenly change the pricing.

I once paid full price for Team Fortress 2 only to see it go to "Free to Play" shortly thereafter. I just shrugged, as this sort of thing happens in every market place. The most the vendors have to do is ignore the noise or refund a few vocal or persistent individuals and life carries on.

PGI has been doing this since they have been selling(over-priced) mechs. Occasionally someone buys a MC only hero/champion mech only to see it go on sale a few days or week later. That's the market place.

PGI could implement HB's suggestions and simply say that, "Sorry, that's the market place".

[Homeless Bill]

Responses to counter-points and alternatives coming soon™.

Jman5, on 04 August 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

PGI, I dare you to come into this thread and justify it to us.

Do it. You guys gonna let a Hunchback pilot talk **** about you?

[9thDeathscream]

As the owner of 130 Mechs. (yeah i keep the bad ones as well as a reminder of how good the good Mechs are) All in +KDR

I struggle to find Modules and Cockpit items. Especially since my memory is bad. I cant remember where I put things.

Some method of retrieval or finding without having to load each Mech singularly in MechLab would be a God Send.

[Deathlike]

Homeless Bill, on 04 August 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Do it. You guys gonna let a Hunchback pilot talk **** about you?

I was pretty sure he rolled me in a Banshee the other day...

[Jman5]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

I was pretty sure he rolled me in a Banshee the other day...

I remember that. I was proving a point to people in my unit that a 53kph assault can keep up just fine regardless of where he spawns. Anyway back on point! Make modules a 1-time purchase and stop forcing us to juggle them around. It's dumb and anyone who spends 5 seconds thinking about it would agree!

[Homeless Bill]

Airic Gryphon, on 03 August 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

PGI's current modules system causes me to sink less of my c-bills back into the game. I have 4 radar dep modules, one for each weight class, and that's only because it was a pain to search 75 mechs to find the one I was looking for, otherwise I only would have ever bought one.

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Does anyone, anyone buy multiples of cockpit items? I know I won't.

I have a couple, which I got long ago. I don't even equip them in mechs anymore.

Why not? Because I have 66 mechs. I pilot different ones all the time. I just lose track of them, and couldn't be bothered moving them back. Hell, even my warhorn that I kinda like sits and rots because I get tired of moving it between mechs. I won't buy new cockpit items for that very reason, too... they'll just sit and rot because I have too many mechs, and cockpit items (while reasonably inexpensive) are WAY TOO expensive to consider buying 66 of 'em.

CapperDeluxe, on 04 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Totally agree, I have several cockpit items that I never bother to put on my mechs just because its a pain to have to constantly move them around my many mechs that I change out to on a regular basis. Whats the point of having them if I can't be bothered to install them?

Terciel1976, on 04 August 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

I hadn't even realized that I've totally stopped thinking about cockpit items, but I did think about buying one lately and decided "nah, I'll just lose it..." so, yeah. And modules...ugh.

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

You know what I just realized after skimming through the OP? It's not just that I don't care about my own cockpit anymore. It's been ages since I bothered moving them around.

But it's very rare to spectate other players and see them having cockpit items. And the ones I do see, are usually the ones awarded from weekly challenges, or Founder items. I would wager that cockpit item sales could be improved drastically with OP's suggestion.

That's a bunch of wasted money right there. I do have to agree in particular with Alistair - compared to Hero 'mechs, how often do you see cockpit items? It's so rare that I spectate people with anything that was purchased that it's sad. That **** should be flying off the shelf. It's called microtransactions.

And players buying cockpit items will have a snowball effect. Since I never see any when I'm spectating, I don't think about it. But the first time I saw Adi rocking his Disco Light, I wanted to murder him and move into his 'mech. That's what people should be feeling. They should want to buy decorative **** constantly. This really isn't that difficult.

SamsungNinja, on 04 August 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

If we're talking money, I would buy a LOT more cockpit items that I've had my eye on, if I knew I could hang them in as many 'mechs as I wanted. Rasalhague swag in all my Stalkers, Disco Inferno action in all my Clan 'mechs. Fuzzy Dice and Hula Girls in anything that feels baller enough to handle them. AND THE CHRISTMAS LIGHTS! Frankly, I'd have bought every color available if I would have been able to put them in all my 'mechs.

I'd have three or four "themes" if I could. A couple different colors of lights, some Clanner stuff, some abrasive stuff, and a few warhorns would be enough to deck out most of my stable, and that'd be $50 for PGI. As it is, they'll get nothing until the end of the game because cockpit items are constantly losing value.

Gooner, on 04 August 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

Lets be honest though, the whole Free 2 Play market (not just MWO - all F2P games) is designed to be so grindy and repetitive and inconvenient that the player says "sod it, I'll just buy this for real money". We are supposed to spend all our cbills on modules so the next time a new mech comes out, we spend real money. This won't change.

That's where their big problem is, though: they've made it so atrociously grindy that no one bothers. They've set the value of four minor improvements to a single 'mech equivalent to two fully built 'mechs. People look at that equation and think, "I'll take two new robots, please."

As a grind, it's ineffective because no one bothers. It either needs to be a reasonable price (1,000,000 / module) or it doesn't need to be there at all. They have to make it a C-Bill sink worth buying; right now, they're a hilariously bad value (again, one that gets worse with each 'mech purchase).

Edited by Homeless Bill, 04 August 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

Techorse, on 04 August 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

The solution that'd make me happy would simply be a "recollect all cockpit items" and a "recollect all modules" button that simply strips all said items from all your 'mechs and returns them to your inventory.

They could, but why stop there? At the point where you make it easy enough that it's not an inconvenience, no one would buy duplicate modules. If they go that far, just make it shared and let me leave modules in all my 'mechs. It's just a simpler, cleaner solution that means you don't have to continually set up your module configuration time after time.

Maxx Blue, on 04 August 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Since you realize it is a CBill sink, and generally an annoyance to encourage people to buy CBills or spend on premium time to earn faster, let me ask this:

Would you be willing to buy a module that was universal with MC? CBill modules would still be available as single-mech-usable items, but if you want to buy it once and have it available for EVERY mech, you must pay MC. Would you go for that?

No. I would do the exact same thing as now, which is to just not bother with modules. The choice they present is a ridiculous one: buy and build two 'mechs or buy four minor improvements for a single 'mech. For the vast majority of people, it's a clear choice.

Their choice in terms of modules is either "make your game less irritating and tilted towards veteran players" or "leave it broken." I've survived a year-and-a-half without modules, and I'll be just fine going forward. Their attempt to make it needlessly grindy fails because the effort required is so high that the vast majority of players don't bother.

Seriously, how many people do you know that have a full set of modules for each 'mech? I know exactly zero people that fit that description. They need to stop making design decisions that clash with being a collector. That's what most of us are, and it pains me that they don't get it.

TLBFestus, on 04 August 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

On the flip side, there would be a deafening scream from those who spent hundreds of dollars on Clan Mech packs if PGI were to suddenly change the pricing.

Ultimately, everyone wins. People that bought duplicate modules get to sell them back for what is effectively free money (whine all you want about how you got cheated out of half that money, but it was useful for not having to switch up until now). Anyone who bought duplicate cockpit items (seriously, who the **** does that?) should get an MC refund, some sort of special deal (here's 30 days of Premium Time), or something special. But ultimately, it's hard to complain no matter what. Even if you bought two cockpit items, you're still getting an improvement because you can now equip them in all your 'mechs at once.

Kadreal, on 03 August 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

One solution would be a new inventory system. Item aren't actually equipped, and instead when you load out a mech, it's more of a blueprint of the items it needs.

When you take a mech into battle, each item it requires is marked as 'in use' in your invetory until that mech leaves the battle.

That way you could have 2 mechs equiped with your single Target Decay Module, and you can enter battle with any one of these at the drop of a hat and they will have your target decay module equipped.

However if you then leave that battle early, and try to enter a battle with the other mech that has target decay 'equipped' you'd get a warning that no target decays are currently available, launch without? And you could launch without the item, or wait for your target decay to free up.

This effectively automates the tedious switching of items, while still giving reason for people to buy more then one (if they often run multple mechs)

This system can work for equipment (no more XL switching), modules, and doodads.

I will say that I do not support this system for anything besides modules and cockpit items. Engines, weapons, and everything else should be just like it is now because it's currently an economically reasonable trade.

Before I got up to 20 'mechs, I switched engines (and a few more expensive weapons) around because I was pushing for more 'mechs. As my stable expanded, I decided it was worth it to blow 3,000,000ish C-Bills per 'mech if it meant not having to switch **** around. 3,000,000 was the price to get around the bullshit. And that's a reasonable value, particularly when you think about the effort it would take to swap out components like that lore-wise.

But when the price to avoid bullshit is over 20,000,000? That's just ******* ridiculous. I think there's a clear distinction between nebulous, tonnage-free items meant to specialize your 'mech and the components that every 'mech needs to function. I'm not looking to just give players a ton of free money.