42 replies to this topic

[Shae Starfyre]

Greetings,

I have been reading a lot of the forum posts on groups, balance, etc., and I noticed there is a Catch 22 going on; refering to a type of unsolvable logic puzzle.

It goes like this:

MWO needs players, people get fed up with mechanics, balance, game play, group queue or whatever it is that angst them, and leave which leads to more balance, game play, mechanic related perceptions of inequality.

The more that leave, the more these disparities widen; when a new patch that has favorable content comes along, there is a brief moment of awe and good game play, that slowly de-evolves back to having perceived issues as certain aspects of the content is re-evaluated.

This leads to people taking breaks, leaving again for extended periods of time, leading back to more and more seemingly game breaking perceptions of content and game play experience.

When one comes to the conclusion that their angst is an issue, and others begin to see it, and then a fix comes along whether well done or not, there is a moment of interest and more people are playing, things seem to work out for a time, then something else comes up.

At first, the new 3/3/3/3 was providing some really nice games, and even with the injection of Clan, games were close; then the MM, having to deal with people leaving due to a small subset of bad games or their perception of bad game content/mechanics, the MM has a harder time bringing a good group together, and it slowly dessolves again into a stomp perspective (this is just one example of many aspects that could cause a similiar revolving door).

I guess what I am trying to say is, I wish people would stop leaving and taking breaks, and gut it out as this will provide a better picture of what PGI might need in the forms of statistical data for more informed changes then leaving (taking that stastical part of the equation out) and posting on a forum they rarely read (unless they post strictly on the feedback thread but continue to play). This is not to say that those who post on general are not without merit, I just hope that they are sticking around more than what appears to be exodus fuel.

This is just an observation and is only from my perspective.

Edited by Aphoticus, 04 August 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[MadPanda]

Mwo is an arena shooter. It's quite natural that people take breaks. There is no meaningful content in the game. And sticking with a game that you are fed up is a bad idea.

[El Bandito]

That's like telling me to eat the same food every day. Heck no. Not even when made by my mom, let alone PGI.

[Vassago Rain]

What panda said.

[BourbonFaucet]

No, sorry, the "perceived" problems are real, it's just that the new content is distracting enough to get people to come back for a short while and put up with them for a bit. Then once they're reminded of why they left, they leave again.

[NextGame]

Maybe if there was a game to play rather than shoot the red triangle mechs on 10 different maps (look everyone, double figures!) for no aparrent reason, the game might retain the interest of more players.

[Alistair Winter]

I really don't see how that's a catch-22, and I don't even think it's an accurate description of what's going on.

You could have said this:

- MWO is perfect
- If MWO wasn't perfect, the majority of players would criticize the game
- When any player criticizes the game, he demonstrates he belongs to the vocal minority
- The vocal minority is on an island, and should be ignored
- Since the only ones complaining belong to the vocal minority, MWO is perfect.

[Shae Starfyre]

Very interesting responses, thank you.

[Deathlike]

OP, I'm not sure you realize that your first post is the logic used by other people who "believe this game is fine", and not realize that extreme monotony through excessive repetition does not keep one interested in a game long term. Had there been greater variety in the start (more gamemodes for instance), it would be less of a criticism/critique. The longer you've played this game... the longer the list of people in your friends list that haven't played this game in a while... and if you ever get the chance to message some of them to ask what they've been doing... outside of being busy in real life, they will tell you exactly what most people in this thread have been telling you.

You can't convince people to keep playing a game that they've done at least hundreds, or realistically thousands of matches over, when nothing has progressed gameplay wise since Beta. That's a reality that you can't simply ignore or explain away or even excuse.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 August 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

OP, I'm not sure you realize that your first post is the logic used by other people who "believe this game is fine", and not realize that extreme monotony through excessive repetition does not keep one interested in a game long term. Had there been greater variety in the start (more gamemodes for instance), it would be less of a criticism/critique. The longer you've played this game... the longer the list of people in your friends list that haven't played this game in a while... and if you ever get the chance to message some of them to ask what they've been doing... outside of being busy in real life, they will tell you exactly what most people in this thread have been telling you.

You can't convince people to keep playing a game that they've done at least hundreds, or realistically thousands of matches over, when nothing has progressed gameplay wise since Beta. That's a reality that you can't simply ignore or explain away or even excuse.

Different player types not withstanding, I do see what your getting at.

While I do not prescribe to the "believe this game is fine" crowd, I certainly do see the monotonous appeal (Angry Birds, Candy Crush, COD) this game provides for casual gamers (that's me; not in the lack of number of games played (I too, have played thousands of matches) or number of mechs (89 at present);I am just not that interested in some aspects of depth, or that stagnation is prevelent, such that it prevents me from playing).

Also, the responses on this thread, though I believe each one who responded still play this game, are almost advocating the very point I was making (no offense; seemed supportive).

Sorry, Techorse, got to use your quote here; "...the "perceived" problems are real." followed by the line in your signature, "Play the game as a game," is priceless (I found this very humorous, although you may not have intended it as such; I believe that all perceived problems are real to those who experience them, and I, too, just play the game for the sake of the game).

Anyways, I guess I'll just keep on eating the same food.

Thanks again.

Edited by Aphoticus, 04 August 2014 - 06:41 AM.

[Deathlike]

Aphoticus, on 04 August 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Different player types not withstanding, I do see what your getting at.

While I do not prescribe to the "believe this game is fine" crowd, I certainly do see the monotonous appeal (Angry Birds, Candy Crush, COD) this game provides for casual gamers (that's me; not in the lack of number of games played (I too, have played thousands of matches) or number of mechs (89 at present);I am just not that interested in some aspects of depth, or that stagnation is prevelent, such that it prevents me from playing).

Even games like Angry Birds or Candy Crush probably has some sort of random generating mode (instead of the fixed level puzzles that probably gets one started in a game). An old classic like Diablo... while very simplistic and generic in some ways at least made an effort for random level generation so that no two dungeons are alike (although, you could argue how the maps are pieced together are very similar in nature). When a game provides variety... even as minimal a feature as "randomly generated" levels, you increase replayability... something that even game designers struggle with in trying to "create" new stuff with existing features. That's the kind of thing that makes the staying power of a game rather potent.

Quote

Also, the responses on this thread, though I believe each one who responded still play this game, are almost advocating the very point I was making (no offense).

Sorry, Techorse, got to use your quote here; "...the "perceived" problems are real." followed by the line in your signature, "Play the game as a game," is priceless.

Anyways, I guess I'll just keep on eating the same food.

Thanks again.

I think some people, but rather in a genuine minority that they can do the same stuff, different day. The only time where this happens is that PRIMARILY, those people ACTUALLY enjoy it. Not everyone can do that. It's almost like some people and gambling... some people can handle it... and some people can't stop, to their own detriment. While this is not an entirely fair comparison, but the game is supposed to generate that fuzzy fun feeling that some of us had in beta... and over time it might be far less because nothing had changed.

For instance, last night's gaming session was only 1 hour long... while sure people have to get to work tomorrow, but there's not much to play for (outside of just collecting more c-bills, which is a boring chore at times). The night before (Saturday), we had like a 3-4 hour gaming session (at least for me anyways). If a game was such addictive, staying longer and playing more would not be so much an objection (well, before real life factors in).

Some people like repetition and monotony more than others... and unfortunately these people are generally in the minority.

While I abhor any sort of stock mode, even I wouldn't mind a change of pace if only to keep me interested playing this game. That's how bad the state of this game is for some people.

[Shae Starfyre]

Well, lets hope CW does something more than provide more stats on the stat page; it may even pull me out of the lone wolf status and join a faction (maybe even, gasp, join a team).

[PappySmurf]

Aphoticus [Very interesting responses, thank you]

MWO is fine for what it is a FPS that should have been called [WORLD OF MECHS] and sold to Gijon.

MWO is not fine because PGI is billing it as a team Battle-Tech/MechWarrior game and it is not .

MWO is a non meta boring game without true competitive leagues like Solaris and planetary and role play leagues as well.

[Lefty Lucy]

Aphoticus, on 04 August 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

I wish people would stop leaving and taking breaks

I'm sorry, but when I get frustrated and/or bored with this game, I'm going to give it a rest for a bit and play something else. I'm not sticking around out of some misguided sense of altruism.

[Sandpit]

MadPanda, on 04 August 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

Mwo is an arena shooter. It's quite natural that people take breaks. There is no meaningful content in the game. And sticking with a game that you are fed up is a bad idea.

Didn't read any other posts. This one sums it up just about perfectly. Repetitive game = boring after a while. That changes and you'll see a difference in retention. You xan only stomp and shoot so much

[Wrayeth]

Personally, I'm not playing MWO again until they un-nerf jump jets. I wasn't a major pop-tarter and the primary mechs I used didn't even have jets at all, but sometimes I liked to hop into a highlander or victor and play games where I exploited the mobility advantage granted by jump jets to strike from unexpected places. Now that jump jets are basically useless and I can no longer jump over buildings, those mechs are so much hangar trash. As such, I won't be dropping in any matches until PGI fixes their mistake.

[Shae Starfyre]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Even games like Angry Birds or Candy Crush probably has some sort of random generating mode (instead of the fixed level puzzles that probably gets one started in a game). An old classic like Diablo... while very simplistic and generic in some ways at least made an effort for random level generation so that no two dungeons are alike (although, you could argue how the maps are pieced together are very similar in nature). When a game provides variety... even as minimal a feature as "randomly generated" levels, you increase replayability... something that even game designers struggle with in trying to "create" new stuff with existing features. That's the kind of thing that makes the staying power of a game rather potent.

This is an interesting comparison, probably why I play solo all the time, as I find that there is always something random that happens to keep my interests.

I fear that if I get into groups, that it will become more stagnant whereas in the pug queue, while there are a lot of same strategies that take place, there are always different loadouts, and whether for the bad or the worse, different strategies do filter in that make things interesting (challenging).

Then there is always my own perspective changes, like getting into a not-so-used mech and having a go of it.

To each his own, and I guess that is what it boils down to; the importance of those beliefs are valid regardless of the perspective.

[Lefty Lucy]

Wrayeth, on 04 August 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Personally, I'm not playing MWO again until they un-nerf jump jets. I wasn't a major pop-tarter and the primary mechs I used didn't even have jets at all, but sometimes I liked to hop into a highlander or victor and play games where I exploited the mobility advantage granted by jump jets to strike from unexpected places. Now that jump jets are basically useless and I can no longer jump over buildings, those mechs are so much hangar trash. As such, I won't be dropping in any matches until PGI fixes their mistake.

It's just as bad for light mechs. It used to be I'd hit the jets to get out of a bad spot in my jenner. Since I have reflexes trained over thousands of games, that means these days I spend too much time jetting into the side of a hill/building while an assault mech one-shots me.

[Thorn Hallis]

PappySmurf, on 04 August 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

MWO is not fine because PGI is billing it as a team Battle-Tech/MechWarrior game and it is not .

MWO is a non meta boring game without true competitive leagues like Solaris and planetary and role play leagues as well.

Every Mechwarrior game with a multiplayer part so far was a "non meta boring game" following your description, with MPBT3025 being the lone exception. Makes MWO a worthy addition to the series, eh?

[PappySmurf]

Thorn Halls [Every Mechwarrior game with a multiplayer part so far was a "non meta boring game" following your description, with MPBT3025 being the lone exception. Makes MWO a worthy addition to the series, eh? ]

Well sir lets retro back to the beginning

MW1 Was a role play game basically with some mech action and no multiplayer.
MW2 Was a role play game,A single player game,and a multiplayer game.
MW3 Was a role play game,A single player game,and a multiplayer game.
MW4 Was a role play game,A single player game,and a multiplayer game.
MW4 Mektec Was a role play game,A single player game,and a multiplayer game.
MPBT3025 Was a role play game,A single player game,and a multiplayer game.
MechWarrior living legends Was a role play game,and a multiplayer game.

All of these games were popular and fun because of the games and mostly the community's sup[port and involvement.

MWO is a FPS game with NO! role play ,NO! single player? , And a repetitive boring Multiplayer?
No MWO is not a worthy successor to anything BT or MechWarrior related.Without community involvement,leauges MWO is nothing but a generic First Person Shooter wrapped up in a mechs body there are so many of these same F2Play game types its not funny and MWO does not even compare to the top 10% of the F2Play market.

They should have listened to the Old Guard players and fans and made MWO a MechWarrior game that was FREE2PLAY not A FPS/WOT Clone.

Edited by PappySmurf, 04 August 2014 - 07:44 AM.