58 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

Before I post this I want to say for those folks who don't know me that I try very hard not to wallow in negativity. I am not a 'white knight', but I am also not a person who sees value in constantly complaining. I try very hard to look at issues with the game with reason and detatchment rather than passion. I leave passion for the battlefield.

That having been said,

Nikolai Lubkiewicz ‏@HerbuRola 14h
6 Cockpit Items to be added to the #MWO Store tomorrow, including 5 brand new items and one Warhorn!

Roger Johnson ‏@RJohnson69 14h
@HerbuRola balance changes?

Nikolai Lubkiewicz ‏@HerbuRola 14h
@RJohnson69 Not this week, as we've only had less than a week since the last major changes to balance. Sorry!


Nik was nice enough to reply to my tweet yesterday asking about balance changes. First of all, thanks for replying.

But I cannot state strongly enough that I really think the delay in balance changes for the clan mechs is overdue. The TW, the cERML, and perhaps the SCrow need some changes to bring them in line with the rest of the clan mechs and weapons. I think the vast majority of the population is in agreement on this. I KNOW that the vast majority of the people on this forum whose opinions I trust and value believes it. (you guys know who you are)


I feel the need to state my frustration at the pace of balance changes in general. I know, I know, this is not a new thing. And frankly it will probably never change.

But PGI has surprised me several times recently by changing direction on things I champions but thought would never change (PPC spread dmg, burst AC dmg, ELO modification based upon group size) so I am going to petition once again here (and on twitter) for them to pick up the pace.

When change is too fast, we do not get enough time to test things. Making changes every week is stupid. But when change is too slow, it becomes a point of frustration to the Nth degree. I know it is a hard balance and one which PGI seems to play it safe and slow. But the fact is that these issues are no brainers. Fix them.

[Impyrium]

Frankly much of the changes that the community think are 'no brainers' are probably more complex than many would give thought, and while players might feel they know the exact things the game needs, the developers themselves are dealing with a much larger picture regardless of what a certain group might want.

Also, you've said that one every week is too fast (and it is, really, they can't get balance right if they rush) yet this thread seems to be complaining over Nik replying that they've only had less than a week...?

[Roland]

The ERML doesn't need to be nerfed.

The IS ML needs to be buffed... and by buffed, I mean simply restored to its original BT stats by having its heat reduced by one back to its original levels.

[Gyrok]

Sprouticus, on 05 August 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

Before I post this I want to say for those folks who don't know me that I try very hard not to wallow in negativity. I am not a 'white knight', but I am also not a person who sees value in constantly complaining. I try very hard to look at issues with the game with reason and detatchment rather than passion. I leave passion for the battlefield.

That having been said,

Nikolai Lubkiewicz ‏@HerbuRola 14h
6 Cockpit Items to be added to the #MWO Store tomorrow, including 5 brand new items and one Warhorn!

Roger Johnson ‏@RJohnson69 14h
@HerbuRola balance changes?

Nikolai Lubkiewicz ‏@HerbuRola 14h
@RJohnson69 Not this week, as we've only had less than a week since the last major changes to balance. Sorry!


Nik was nice enough to reply to my tweet yesterday asking about balance changes. First of all, thanks for replying.

But I cannot state strongly enough that I really think the delay in balance changes for the clan mechs is overdue. The TW, the cERML, and perhaps the SCrow need some changes to bring them in line with the rest of the clan mechs and weapons. I think the vast majority of the population is in agreement on this. I KNOW that the vast majority of the people on this forum whose opinions I trust and value believes it. (you guys know who you are)


I feel the need to state my frustration at the pace of balance changes in general. I know, I know, this is not a new thing. And frankly it will probably never change.

But PGI has surprised me several times recently by changing direction on things I champions but thought would never change (PPC spread dmg, burst AC dmg, ELO modification based upon group size) so I am going to petition once again here (and on twitter) for them to pick up the pace.

When change is too fast, we do not get enough time to test things. Making changes every week is stupid. But when change is too slow, it becomes a point of frustration to the Nth degree. I know it is a hard balance and one which PGI seems to play it safe and slow. But the fact is that these issues are no brainers. Fix them.

Clans are not broken, I have had this discussion multiple times. If you are expecting changes to things that are not broken, your expectations are a bit awry.

[Roland]

I don't think he said anywhere that clans are broken.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Clan tech won't see any nerfs at all until the mechs in question are available for C-Bills. PGI want to give people who spent money the advantage for as long as possible.

Once more clan tech is C-Bill purchasable and the early adopters had their fill, then it will be nerfed just as us C-Bill players get it.

I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more Clan buffs (like for the Summoner). It can always be nerfed again when it comes out for C-Bills *shrug*

[meteorol]

Honestly, i absolutely didn't expect any balance changes this patch.

I hope the "only one strike per mech" thingy doesn't count as balance though. Not because i have a problem with two strikes per mech, but because i want to have clarity on which consumables i'll put on my mech.

[Kiiyor]

You don't touch the Crow. You get your filthy hands off it! It boggles me that people want to nerf one of the very, very few viable medium mechs in our entire Parthenon of giant robots.

Edit: seriously. I'll cut you!

Edited by Kiiyor, 05 August 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Appogee]

We must avoid all weapons and all Mechs becoming exactly the same.

At the moment, Clans have an advantage with lasers thanks to their range, IS has an advantage with ACs due to their pinpoint damage.

That gives Clans and IS Mechs different flavours. It's worth preserving. Let's resist the urge to nerf everything to vanilla.

[EyeOne]

Clan Lasers need a range nerf across the board.

[Lily from animove]

MeiSooHaityu, on 05 August 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Clan tech won't see any nerfs at all until the mechs in question are available for C-Bills. PGI want to give people who spent money the advantage for as long as possible.

Once more clan tech is C-Bill purchasable and the early adopters had their fill, then it will be nerfed just as us C-Bill players get it.

I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more Clan buffs (like for the Summoner). It can always be nerfed again when it comes out for C-Bills *shrug*

the issue is the choice of clanmechs, the timbewolf is top of its weight class, and has all the best "standard upgrades, FF, Enfo, big XL) while the summone has not all these and is lower in its weight class. Additionally, the TBR has way better hardpoints available in its setup. This generates a big gab in the mechs pure potential and the summoner will never be able to compete, unless some quirks give it decent advantages over the madcat.

between IS mechs, this is not so much the case, because every mech, by its preset hardpoints is kinda unique on its own and therefore there is mostlikely one role on the most IS mechs, the very specific mech can forfill. But there is no role on the summoner, the TBR can not do or better. Except maybe dating with a girl in its cockput enjoying the panorama view to the stars. possibly giving the summoner at leats some kind o speed buff or weapon cooldown buff so that he has some advantages on some specific fields.

Crow and Nova are asimilar issue, the nova by having 5tons less is standard standard, while the crow on top gets FF and ES, + does not have fixed JJ's taking even more podspace. This makes the crow so uch better, because the amount of heavy weapons it can load is significant. Or at leats it can take some vital amount of HS additionally to the PPC's. The Nova will always be very restrictedin what it can use due to only a tiny podspace compared to the crow.

2 ERPPCs fot on a adder, also 2 ERPPCs fit on a Nova. No significant difference cna be made in the offense here. The only difference is: Nova is slower and has some more Armor. But the weapon potential is on light clan mehc niveau. Both lights, kit fox and Adder do have FF ES, giving them a lot of podpspace.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 August 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Wolfways]

Vassago Rain, on 05 August 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

Gyrok is trying to rationalize his 240 dollar purchase. If you so much as mention clans, he feels it's necessary to point out that they are not OP, not broken, not P2W, and he merely bought them for convenience. Yes.

I don't think clan mechs are OP, broken, or P2W and i don't have any. I'm only piloting IS mechs and haven't had any problems fighting against clan mechs. If fact i just recently took on two of the so-called OP Timber Wolfs at the same time in my stock weapon JM6-S and killed them easily. YMMV.

[Bhael Fire]

There's nothing wrong with Clan mechs/tech. Aside from some tweaks to Clan ACs, pulse lasers and Clan mechs quirks they are pretty much in a nice sweet spot and a re freakin fun to play. Remember "fun"?

It's the IS mechs and weapon modules that need some balance changes.

[Tombstoner]

The timber wolf is simply the best of the best for its weight class. its what the marauder would have been trying to be. just imagine If the marauder unseen was really in the game. its TT stats are pure MWO meta before conversion. Its stock load out is 2x ppc +1 ac5+ 2 mL. its got 4 energy + 1 ballistic hard points stock.

then add in advanced tech and its a monster people would want nerfed. but its built with the same rules as any other. you just cant compare mechs of different weights.

Edited by Tombstoner, 05 August 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Bhael Fire, on 05 August 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

There's nothing wrong with Clan mechs/tech. Aside from some tweaks to Clan ACs, pulse lasers and Clan mechs quirks they are pretty much in a nice sweet spot and a re freakin fun to play. Remember "fun"?

It's the IS mechs and weapon modules that need some balance changes.

I would be ok with some IS buffs as well, but we don't want TTK reduced much more than it already has been. The ISML in particular could use a heat reduction and maybe a bit more dmg.

But even if you buff the IS mechs with quirks and tweak a few weapons, the TW will still be the best heavy mech in the game by a large margin. Best speed, great hardpoints, super survivable, JJ's, etc etc.

As for the SCrow, it is my favorite mech in the game (overtook the BJ) right now. But looking at it without my clan colored glasses, it is better than the SHawk overall.


Here is the thing thing though, we can argue all day what changes are required. that is not the point of my post. I am concerned about the RATE of change. Especially with the clan mechs.

[MadPanda]

I don't think there should be any balance changes to the clan mechs until they are available for c-bills and more people have had the chance to try them.

[Sprouticus]

MeiSooHaityu, on 05 August 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Clan tech won't see any nerfs at all until the mechs in question are available for C-Bills. PGI want to give people who spent money the advantage for as long as possible.

Once more clan tech is C-Bill purchasable and the early adopters had their fill, then it will be nerfed just as us C-Bill players get it.

I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more Clan buffs (like for the Summoner). It can always be nerfed again when it comes out for C-Bills *shrug*

I am not nearly and bitter an cynical as you and frankly your opinion is so tainted by your anger that I don't give it a ton of value personally.

That having been said, the thought did cross my mind, and it made me sad at the same time.

[Ngamok]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

I don't think he said anywhere that clans are broken.

TBR and SCR he mentioned lol. Part of clans.

[Mr Ikea]

Wolfways, on 05 August 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

If fact i just recently took on two of the so-called OP Timber Wolfs at the same time in my stock weapon JM6-S and killed them easily. YMMV.

Bullshit. A "stock weapon" -S barely has half it's full armor, and there's no way known two simultaneous Timberwolves didn't rip through you in seconds.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Problem with PGI, is they only seem to pay attention to the whiners that make poor suggestions and cry for nerfs, and they ignore the people that actually have smart/simple suggestions that would make the game better.

And then Paul, that just comes up with all these backwards double whammy fixes regardless, and never fine tunes it.

I look at old videos back when Mechs could climb over terrain easier, the entire map was being used instead of just funneling players into predictable paths, but then the HillClimb Module never gets finished to provide some of that mobility back.

JJ's just got neutered, but I doubt we'll see any relief for months if at all.

AC-2, AC-10, AC-20 randomly gets nerfed into the ground to screw over brawlers and non-meta counter snipers, pushing the Gauss/AC5/PPC meta even higher up the food chain, and they never get rolled back into the "useful" category with any balances, while AC-5 remains relatively unharmed.

There is a list a mile long of changes that have needed to be made for a long time, stuff that is part of the core gameplay that has been around long before Clans were out that needs attention, and you really expect anything soon for clan balance? good luck.