55 replies to this topic

[Tezcatli]

Whether a side has ECM is game breaking. It's ridiculous.

It shouldn't be hard counter versus a hard counter. I mean it's fine in organized play. But in the queue it makes for pretty unbalanced matches.

It shouldn't block missiles for every mech under it's umbrella. It should only do that for the mech equipped with it. In my opinion it either increase lock on time or cause missiles to scatter wide to reduce their damage.

[Wolfways]

Graugger, on 05 August 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

LRM boats be hatin that they can't get 800 damage in a match.

Very true. Why shouldn't LRM's get as high damage scores as other weapons?

(Yes, i know that's not what you meant, but regardless your stupid comment does make a good argument for buffing LRM's.)

[Apnu]

Unikron, on 05 August 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

And this is how newbies learn in every game. They get mostly owned. That is how I learned in almost every single game.
It is dev's fault in Matchmaking division if they are matched against much more experienced player.

I have always felt that newbies should be put in their own queue and only face off against other newbies until they finish some kind of basic training. Say after collecting all their c-bill bonuses, they have to buy a mech, work with it in the mech bay, then do some other number of matches in that new mech against other newbies, then they graduate and can go onto gen. pop.

[Odins Fist]

QUESTION IS:

Unikron, on 05 August 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

"What Ecm Ever Did To You?"

ANSWER: Nothing BAD worth noting or crying about..

ALTHOUGH.... ECM did do a lot of POSITIVE for me when I WASN"T running ECM.

EXAMPLE: Light mech is near and he is trying to JAM someone's ECM on my team, and I receive a "LOW SIGNAL" warning.. Guess what, I know there is a light or a D-DC near, and I can't tell you how many lights that run ECM that I have gotten the "LOW SIGNAL" from turned the corner and "BLAMO", good times.
Frozen City is the best for that.

I don't find fighting against ECM difficult, and do you know why.???
When I see a Mech (or group of mechs) without the Red indicator above them, I shoot them.

Pretty simple really, and if you rely/depend on weapons that require a lock (almost exclusively), then you're doing it wrong. That's kinda why WE all have the ability to have a variation in OUR loadouts.

Oh, and there are COUNTERS to ECM.

[Apnu]

To the OP. I think ECM is fine, but I object to a compounding issue centered around ECM.

First off, in this game, from the early days of CB, someone on the team needed to have LOS to detect an enemy mech and feed that data back to the rest of the team.

But in lore, and on the TT, mechs could always detect other mechs, LOS or no, anywhere on the map. They had mag. scans, could sense the reactors, seismic -- all of it in the cockpit. Basically, you always knew where the enemy was at any given time. ECM only disrupted special equipment like Artemis, but didn't deny basic detection and targeting.

If ECM were more like the TT, and it disrupted TAG and Artemis, or heck even denied paper doll telemetry reducing us to just seeing red blips move about, that would be enough for EW.

But as it is, since we all have a passive ECM, being that we can't detect the magnetic, power or seismic signature of mechs (but strangely we can on our own team), ECM breaks even having LOS on a enemy. Rendering them, basically invisible to the rest of the team.

Now, since we have no good communications in this game, unless you've got a good scout who can type really fast, its impossible to relay enemy team movement unless you're on 3rd party voice coms.

So there's that too. The lack of communication in this game hampers the team of solo's vs an organized pre-made on their own private coms.

Like I said, ECM, itself, is fine, however, coupled with the rest of the game it becomes very powerful at 1.5 tons, 2 crit. slots and zero skill to use.

[Malleus011]

Unikron, on 05 August 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

It saddens me a little, that good majority would rather follow their damn tabletop canon (despite this game being a god damn team FPS FFS!!!), instead of implementing more interesting and rich functions in this sci-fi world. Well... I guess nothing can fight your "immersion-breakage". GG

Guy plays a Battletech game. Rants about it being based on Battletech.

*shakes head*

You're gonna have a bad time.

[M3 SABLE]

Malleus011, on 05 August 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Guy plays a Battletech game. Rants about it being based on Battletech.

*shakes head*

You're gonna have a bad time.

Who has a bad time are the devs who need to work their ass off to make the game balanced, and keep all the lore details intact;..

[Mcgral18]

Unikron, on 05 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Who has a bad time are the devs who need to work their ass off to make the game balanced, and keep all the lore details intact;..

It would have been pretty simple had they not borked up the simplest thing...3x refire, 2x armour, 1x dissipation. Rising heat cap.


Aside from that, gECM isn't supposed to be Magic Jesus Box, combining so many things into a tiny 1.5 ton package.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 05 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

It would have been pretty simple had they not borked up the simplest thing...3x refire, 2x armour, 1x dissipation. Rising heat cap.


Aside from that, gECM isn't supposed to be Magic Jesus Box, combining so many things into a tiny 1.5 ton package.

It makes you think the dev that is relying on TT or basing the game on TT must have gotten his arse handed to him often... and I don't mean Paul.

[M3 SABLE]

How about just buffing LRM damage? Make it a weapon that you need sweat a little with, but be rewarded with good dps that had contact with mech? That way, the spotter does not need to commit a suicide if he wants to keep consistent view or damage on the target.

LRM, unlike other weapons, does not need to be aimed traditionally, and can shoot over anything with over 1 km range, if just one person gets proper LoS, whole team can launch it. It is a homing swarm of missiles.

I always viewed it as a fire-support weapon rather than a main weapon, that insures you you can still help the team to deal damage while you have no LoS, you are approaching the target, but can take advantage of the fact that your buddies who are ahead of you and are already in combat and locked-on.


If taking it as a relatively close equivalent from real life, it feels like a Missile-Battery, Air-to-ground Missle-Jet, or Missile-Cruiser weapon-system, that requires something like laser-guidance, lock-on from Infantry to make the destruction happen. Same way I see it working with TAG/NARC Lights providing true, clear vision for like pilots with LRM equipped. However, unlike in MWO, weapons like that irl bring much more devastating results over a brief, large explosion of only about 1 to 3 missiles.

Are there "BIG" missiles in Battletech? Single shot weapon that require hassle of cooperation between classes to successfully shoot, but deals severe damage to the target?

Edited by Unikron, 05 August 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Zypher]

I don't even see ECM being that big of a problem with LRMs, for me its that it's one piece of equipment that puts a sensor blanket over your entire team. It would make more sense if that effect was only for the mech carrying it, but the whole team is a bit much. The issue this causes is even further disruption towards coordination in solo queue, which is very little to start with.

I think the reason someone brought up groups is because that disruption is more easily controlled when someone can call it out immediately over voice.

In solo it's a crap shoot if your team will deploy with ECM, you always pray that it does, but if yours doesn't and theirs does the match is probably going to hurt, that makes one piece of equipment far too powerful to have that much influence. No one wants to be the person that has to drop in a light or medium every match to try to ensure a win. And the DDC, hehe, with the mobility of Clan mechs slow assaults looks dumb twirling about.

I recently had a solo match where a Raven 3L ran to the back of our spawn, spotting for the LRMs and hitting us with large lasers in the back. I commend that player for doing so, the problem is the rest of my team was oblivious to what was going on even after I put it in chat, half the solo players don't even notice the chat.

Solo queue players only see red, there is rarely coordination beyond that, if they don't see that red everything else goes over their head.

I have watched more than one experienced ECM Cicada with PPCs finish off a team at the end of a match because the remainder of the assault and heavy noobs couldn't locate where the target was. This becomes even more an issue when the player hides in the shadows of Terra Therma or HPG. I guarantee if wouldn't happen nearly as often is they could see red, even noobs can hit a target with some regularity.

[mogs01gt]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

OP has no sense of game balance.

This times 100x. It's really not worth even quoting the OP because his obvious lack of game mechanics understanding is completely absent. His posts passed his original show this even further.

One piece of equipment should not be able to nullify an already weak weapon set.

Edited by mogs01gt, 05 August 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Gideon Grey]

Sure, ECM is not quite the Godbox it once was due to increasing counters... But here's an interesting thought experiment for you.

Think of your favorite pimped out, optimized, certified killing machine, non ECM Mech.

Now imagine PGI made it ECM capable.

How many Mech load outs are there that wouldn't benefit from squeezing out 1.5 tons and two crits in order to swap in an ECM?

I imagine I'd fit it on any build I run in general.

The cost benefit is pretty clear. If you can carry it, you do.

Can't really say that about any other item in the game.

[Wolfways]

Unikron, on 05 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Who has a bad time are the devs who need to work their ass off to make the game balanced, and keep all the lore details intact;..

Umm....they haven't.

[Livewyr]

Buffing LRM damage? More Lottery balance.

Pull the handle and find out how many LRMs are on your team, and how many ECM is on theirs.

[Tatula]

One thing I've observed. In PUG games (which is mostly what I play), a majority of times the last mech still running around when all its team mates have been destroyed is an ECM equipped light. That longevity seems like a super power to me.