35 replies to this topic

[Damien Tokala]

you have perfectly captured the innersphere's weak side, and the rightful power of clan mechs. now start giving them innersphere omnimechs to compensate instead of nerfing clans to the ground.

[Noth]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

you have perfectly captured the innersphere's weak side, and the rightful power of clan mechs. now start giving them innersphere omnimechs to compensate instead of nerfing clans to the ground.

Actually it does capture that the clans had better pilots over all than the IS.

If you actually look at the data, and not just w/l you'll likely find clan players are better overall skillwise while IS players are not. IS player will still have those that are very skilled and can potentially beat clan teams, but since the IS has more players that are of lesser skill, the skilled IS players still end up losing.

[Damien Tokala]

i have said it before and i'll say it again, it's the pilot, not the mech. yes, clan mechs can hold alot more power, but thats simply because of a technological advantage that the IS has yet to obtain. i have no doubt in my mind that once the IS gets something like the fafnir, clan mechs will seem vastly underpowered

[Viges]

Noth, on 06 August 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

If you actually look at the data

Where?
All I see is that bad clan players win against good is players.

[Noth]

Viges, on 06 August 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Where?
All I see is that bad clan players win against good is players.

Most matches have the clan mechs stick together while the IS mechs go off on their own. This comes from casual, new and relatively poorly skilled players being much more frequent on the IS side. If the IS mechs stay together and the Clan mechs go off on their own, the clan mechs would be slaughtered. This is one of the most common causes of any stomp.

[Ashnod]

Viges, on 06 August 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Where?
All I see is that bad clan players win against good is players.

And where do you see that?

[Viges]

Noth, on 06 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

This comes from casual, new and relatively poorly skilled players being much more frequent on the IS side.

Oh I got it. Its that new moon walkers logic, right? Say what you want no proofs but its true because we said so.

Ashnod, on 06 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

And where do you see that?

I see it in the data! Got it?

[BOWMANGR]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

i have said it before and i'll say it again, it's the pilot, not the mech. yes, clan mechs can hold alot more power, but thats simply because of a technological advantage that the IS has yet to obtain. i have no doubt in my mind that once the IS gets something like the fafnir, clan mechs will seem vastly underpowered

Can't you see that this argument is completely invalid. We are not talking about some miniatures on a table where a certain player has bought and controls by himself. We are talking about individual persons piloting individual mechs.

So what if they give IS a bigger, badder mech, does this fix all the other crappy IS mechs? Who is going to be a punching bag for the Clans and for how long? They need to properly balance the game so that almost all mechs are viable, not 1 or 2 ultra powerful mechs influence the whole match. The other players are not cannon fodder. They want to have fun and participate too.

Just buffing everything up is the worst possible solution. Nerfing is as essential as buffing to produce a balanced result. Clans are OP, they need nerfing, not buffing the IS.

[Sandpit]

Ashnod, on 06 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

And where do you see that?

probably in the 5 or so matches the player remembers. The bad ones always stick out in the mind. Never remember all the even battles

[Damien Tokala]

BOWMANGR, on 06 August 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Can't you see that this argument is completely invalid. We are not talking about some miniatures on a table where a certain player has bought and controls by himself. We are talking about individual persons piloting individual mechs.

So what if they give IS a bigger, badder mech, does this fix all the other crappy IS mechs? Who is going to be a punching bag for the Clans and for how long? They need to properly balance the game so that almost all mechs are viable, not 1 or 2 ultra powerful mechs influence the whole match. The other players are not cannon fodder. They want to have fun and participate too.

Just buffing everything up is the worst possible solution. Nerfing is as essential as buffing to produce a balanced result. Clans are OP, they need nerfing, not buffing the IS.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i laugh at you and your face, all mechs ARE viable, they have roles they were meant to fill. not every mech can be a brawler, and not ever mech can be a striker. learn to suit their roles, then get back to me

[Lefty Lucy]

Noth, on 06 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Most matches have the clan mechs stick together while the IS mechs go off on their own. This comes from casual, new and relatively poorly skilled players being much more frequent on the IS side. If the IS mechs stay together and the Clan mechs go off on their own, the clan mechs would be slaughtered. This is one of the most common causes of any stomp.

Nah, I've had several matches where I rally the IS guys to stick together and form a cohesive defense, and the Clans just sort of Rambo in and own everything.

[BOWMANGR]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i laugh at you and your face, all mechs ARE viable, they have roles they were meant to fill. not every mech can be a brawler, and not ever mech can be a striker. learn to suit their roles, then get back to me

The point you are trying to make is so irrelevant when everyone is saying for months now that we have absolutely no role warfare that the joke is on you. I hope you understand that...

It also shows that you have absolutely no idea about the game's state at the moment. So laugh away. I'm laughing too.

Edited by BOWMANGR, 06 August 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

i have said it before and i'll say it again, it's the pilot, not the mech. yes, clan mechs can hold alot more power, but thats simply because of a technological advantage that the IS has yet to obtain. i have no doubt in my mind that once the IS gets something like the fafnir, clan mechs will seem vastly underpowered

so...in 15 years, Damien?

First IS Omnis aren't for another 9 years, and it's 11 before we start seeing any weaponry that is "on par" in lore.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 August 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

so...in 15 years, Damien?

First IS Omnis aren't for another 9 years, and it's 11 before we start seeing any weaponry that is "on par" in lore.

like they haven't played with the timeline already?

[El Bandito]

Sandpit, on 06 August 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

like they haven't played with the timeline already?

Like they can balance even the meager amount of IS weapons we have now...

[Kaspirikay]

Eeeh, after playing my DDC, I'm incline to say that clan mechs are good, but not that great. Good strategy and alittle luck is all it takes to for IS to take on Clan. That said, this is my experience playing an Elited DDC and being very aggressive.

I've been leading charges with my DDC lately and I've gone toe to toe against DWFs and Timber Wolves, they just can't out live my Atlas, along with me rallying the team, it proves to be a very deadly combination.

[FupDup]

Inner Sphere Omnimechs would be the worst type of mech possible. They get the inherent weakness of being unable to customize their "core" parts, while simultaneously not being able to use Clan weaponry to compensate for it. They get the worst of both worlds, essentially.

Some models are especially bad. The Strider and Owens in particular are both hardlocked with SHS. They would be nearly unusable in MWO.

Edited by FupDup, 06 August 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[Chagatay]

FupDup, on 06 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Inner Sphere Omnimechs would be the worst type of mech possible. They get the inherent weakness of being unable to customize their "core" parts, while simultaneously not being able to use Clan weaponry to compensate for it. They get the worst of both worlds, essentially.

Some models are especially bad. The Strider and Owens in particular are both hardlocked with SHS. They would be nearly unusable in MWO.

But this is incorrect. IS omnis CAN use clan omni equipment as well as the reverse (see Owens R config). The true thing to be scared of is "standard" clan battlemechs*.

* Likely the next, next package in the pipeline (first comes omni IS stuff of course)

Edited by Chagatay, 06 August 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Chagatay, on 06 August 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:

But this is incorrect. IS omnis CAN use clan omni equipment as well as the reverse (see Owens R config). The true thing to be scared of is "standard" clan battlemechs.

While I do remember seeing some refit rules in Strategic Operations about that, the vast majority of Omnis for both factions were rarely built with mixed tech (although there are some outliers), and PGI seem like the folks who wouldn't let that mixing happen.

Be that as it may, the hardwired "core" components would still be of Inner Sphere design: XL, Endo, and FF (and external DHS, to a lesser extent) would be the bigger, weaker IS versions rather than the better versions that Clan Omnis get. Give them Clan guns and they'd still be a fairly poor choice, although a select few might be salvageable.

In the end though, the standard Clan mechs would indeed be terrifying unless smashed furiously with the nerfhammer.

Edited by FupDup, 06 August 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion:

"this is why you people can't have nice things"


seriously though.. the pilot (the human factor) will always make the difference. I have had a bunch of bad matches of late... and ya I could come on here and post about how OP clan mechs are but the bottom line is this:

- I was tired afew times and not concentrating or aiming my shots. guy infront was. he won, I lost
- Was tired of pugs leaving me behind so I just did my own thing. Got owned pretty quickly each time
- The few times I was fresh and playing properly, I owned anything in sight with my Atlas D or DDC... Team mates playing well helped.. but One match in particular... Frozen city... my D variant VS 3 mechs... 2 of which were clan... Now they'd taken some damage granted... but the 3 of them couldn't down me, I was twisting, and more importantly MOVING and not standing still and circling buildings. my dual LBX critted the Catapult infront of me... I then got the summoner with SRMS and Medium lasers, and the last Kit Fox I took out his leg and finished him off with SRMS.... 3 VS 1 and I owned their asses....

Now.. if even 1 of those guys was a good player, that would not have gone down like that, and I would have atleast lost a torso...or an arm.. and if it was 2 good players and they tactically flanked me and doused me with fire? Would have chewed me up before I could kill any of them.

I've seen a guy in a spider Kill 5 mechs in a match, each was 100% health, the dude was insane and played so well. I can't get even 1 kill in a spider in a match most times....

Everyone relax, focus, and enjoy the ride.

All your bacon is belonging to us!