258 replies to this topic

[Malleus011]

We'll likely never get the Phoenix Hawk. (dammit).

The Wind Indicator isn't going to be a serious competitor - after all, it's a Medium.

It should be fun for the Capellans to have 'their' medium, and add some diversity to Stock Mech Mondays. The meta warriors will never touch it, except ironically.

[IraqiWalker]

Foxwalker, on 10 August 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

Vindicator? Looking at it on Sarna.net, I can't see why anyone would get excited about it. Unless PGI does something really interesting with their hard point design, it seems kinda limited. It should have the same speed cap as the Blackjack, so it is not fast. Can anyone tell me why they think this thing is any good? I am willing to be convinced. Now the Phoenix Hawk would be interesting, with a base engine of 270 (most likely topping out at between 130-140 kph), Jump Jets and one variant with ECM. That Mech could have enough advantages to be competitive with current Clan at that class.

Phoenix Hawk is unseen.

[Threat Doc]

IraqiWalker, on 09 August 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Seriously, THINK about what you're saying, before you say it.

That's kind of harsh, man, even if what you said is right. If the 'Mechs were serial numbered in the game, there were limited numbers, and Clan MechWarrior's in the game were assigned their 'Mechs, earned them in Trials of Position, then I could agree with Foxwalker. The game is not being billed or built that way, so I have to agree with you on this one, IW.

IraqiWalker, on 10 August 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

Phoenix Hawk is unseen.

Just like the other 'Mechs, it doesn't have to be. The Phoenix 'Mechs are Unseen, as well, and yet we have them here to play with, don't we. PGI gave an answer that the Unseen's we have, now, are from one of the franchises, for which they got permission to use them, I guess, and the other's are from the other franchise, and I believe that, just like with the answer given before the change for the Phoenix 'Mechs was made, that this answer is temporary, as well.

PGI knows that, if they get the remaining Unseen's in the game, the Warhammer (chills), Rifleman (shiver), Archer (oh, baby), etc., the veteran's will flock back to this game in a heartbeat-and-a-half. Not working to secure that property, either legally or through the subterfuge they likely committed to get the Unseen's we now have in the game, and get the remaining Unseen's into the game, now that the first Phoenix 'Mechs are in, is not going to be good for business, but getting them in the game would put them on easy street forever, not only with the development of this game, but as in turning the completed game over to a third-party to run and retiring while they're still young. If they've been a part of the BattleTech/MechWarrior community as long as they say they have been, then they saw what releasing these 'Mechs did for MechWarrior IV and MekTek, giving it three years more life than it had.

In fact, I would not doubt that these 'Mechs are under development, and will be a huge part of the marketing campaign to get the veterans back to the game, rockin' and rollin', perhaps at the beginning or middle of 2015, when CW is completely out and they can begin working on things such as the 3025 server and the single-player stuff both Russ and Bryan have confessed they would like to see in the game.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 11 August 2014 - 07:42 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kay Wolf, on 11 August 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

That's kind of harsh, man, even if what you said is right. If the 'Mechs were serial numbered in the game, there were limited numbers, and Clan MechWarrior's in the game were assigned their 'Mechs, earned them in Trials of Position, then I could agree with Foxwalker. The game is not being billed or built that way, so I have to agree with you on this one, IW.

I guess my temper got the best of me. I apologize Foxwalker.

[Aidan]

This 10v12 test this Friday, will it be open to the community or will it be conducted on the MWO Test Server and associated client?

[Muraek]

My question could look like stupid, but, it isn't from my point of view:

How is the tag of the Unit shown, exactly?

I mean, if I create the tag -PT-, I assume that my nick will be shown as -PT-Muraek. Is it right?

Or, on the contrary, sytem (MWO) will include any kind of alpha-numeric value or space or whatever...

[Threat Doc]

Muraek, on 13 August 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

How is the tag of the Unit shown, exactly?

If PGI holds to what has already come, before, then yes your -PT- should work, and it will likely be displayed in front of your in-game name, at least, if not also your character's rank. If PGI goes a different way and, at this point, it does not seem that's what they are doing, then it's anyone's guess.

[1453 R]

I know, late to the party and all, but having just read the thread again due to the latest update...

"...into some Clanner title"? REALLY, Russ? Can you at least do some research prior to posting one of these things so you sound a LITTLE less like a cold-hearted businessman completely unconcerned with the property you're working with?

Beedeedubs, Russman - the proper term would be "Star Captain", which is 'some Clanner title' that indicates a commander of a single Binary or trinary, the Clan military equivalents to the three-lance companies commanded by Inner Sphere Captains.

Jeez...what a way to start the damn morning...

[Cimarb]

So, with CW mod 1 pushed back to the 26th, we are now at the "worst case scenario".../sigh...

I will be happy once it gets here, and glad they at least announced the official day, but....

1453 R, on 19 August 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I know, late to the party and all, but having just read the thread again due to the latest update...

"...into some Clanner title"? REALLY, Russ? Can you at least do some research prior to posting one of these things so you sound a LITTLE less like a cold-hearted businessman completely unconcerned with the property you're working with?

Beedeedubs, Russman - the proper term would be "Star Captain", which is 'some Clanner title' that indicates a commander of a single Binary or trinary, the Clan military equivalents to the three-lance companies commanded by Inner Sphere Captains.

Jeez...what a way to start the damn morning...

Well, to be honest, if he identifies as a Spheroid, that would be the proper way to make a comment about "our kind". I get what you mean, but I do not think it was meant the way you are taking it.

[Apnu]

Kay Wolf, on 11 August 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

... Just like the other 'Mechs, it doesn't have to be. The Phoenix 'Mechs are Unseen, as well, and yet we have them here to play with, don't we. ...

Yes, the Phoenix Hawk is Harmony Gold property in North America. Along with the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and OST-series mechs. Which is about half the total of unseen mechs in Battletech's history.

Until PGI/IGP can strike a deal with Harmony Gold, or PGI says "screw it" and goes with the ugly Project Phoenix redesigns (which would be a timeline violation) we'll never see these mechs in game.

Harmony Gold, from what I recall, has never given any BT derivative the time of day with these mechs. The second they whiff at them, Harmony Gold sends out the lawyers to remind them not to to touch Robotech. I get they have to protect their IP trademark licenses in North America or risk losing them due to disuse. But Harmony Gold's legal team is a bit too zealous.

I'm not sure how persuasive Russ Bullock can be with Harmony Gold. Chances are he'd have to pony up some serious cash to get the rights for this game, something PGI/IGP doesn't have right now. They are a small company and only have a handful of employees. They don't command the capital to make such a deal happen right now. Especially since MWO is carrying MechWarror Tactics on its back too.

[BLOOD WOLF]

whatever happened to tactics? that looked like a neat little bit of fun

[1453 R]

It's not worth the risk for Piranha to go after Harmony Gold's stuff. That company can and will do its dead-level best to sink any company that tires to go after the horrible bloated mutant fleshbeast that is Robotech - even tangentially, a'la Unseen 'Mechs - straight into bankruptcy. It's not worth risking the livelihoods of the company to try and get those 'Mechs in-game - even the Project Phoenix Reseen variations are, as I recall, something of a legal grey area because Harmony Gold is made of evil.

[Threat Doc]

Apnu, on 19 August 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Yes, the Phoenix Hawk is Harmony Gold property in North America. Along with the Marauder, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, and OST-series mechs. Which is about half the total of unseen mechs in Battletech's history.

No, as a matter of fact, they are not. They are licensed to HG, but HG does NOT own them, in North America or Japan or anywhere else. Licensing and owning are two entirely separate things. For example, had Jordan Weisman LICENSED BattleTech to Microsoft, instead of SELLING them the entire IP, we would likely not be having this discussion at all, as MWO wouldn't be a thing. That's only good thing Microsoft has in this entire mess. If Jordan Weisman had LICENSED the property, Microsoft would be paying him through the nose for it, but he would still have all control of the IP. He does not, and there's no telling when it will actually revert to him and FASA Corporation -who now only administer their IPs.

Quote

Until PGI/IGP can strike a deal with Harmony Gold, or PGI says "screw it" and goes with the ugly Project Phoenix redesigns (which would be a timeline violation) we'll never see these mechs in game.

Harmony Gold can be moved around, by going directly to the creators of the series from which Harmony Gold claims, improperly, to own the artwork for, just like with the other series was moved around them so we could have our Wolverine, BattleMaster, Locust, etc.

[Apnu]

Kay Wolf, on 19 August 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

No, as a matter of fact, they are not. They are licensed to HG, but HG does NOT own them, in North America or Japan or anywhere else. Licensing and owning are two entirely separate things. For example, had Jordan Weisman LICENSED BattleTech to Microsoft, instead of SELLING them the entire IP, we would likely not be having this discussion at all, as MWO wouldn't be a thing. That's only good thing Microsoft has in this entire mess. If Jordan Weisman had LICENSED the property, Microsoft would be paying him through the nose for it, but he would still have all control of the IP. He does not, and there's no telling when it will actually revert to him and FASA Corporation -who now only administer their IPs.

Yes HG doesn't own the property. What they own is the rights to use the property and all of its images in North America. So when a company like FASA uses the images without permission, HG has to sue them to protect the IP (else they lose it). If you want to use Macross designs in North America you talk to HG and no one else.

As for Microsoft, they aren't paying Jordan Wiseman anymore. They bought the IP rights to MechWarrior in perpetuity because they bought FASA Interactive. PGI leases those rights from Microsoft. Russ had a big post about it.

Quote

Harmony Gold can be moved around, by going directly to the creators of the series from which Harmony Gold claims, improperly, to own the artwork for, just like with the other series was moved around them so we could have our Wolverine, BattleMaster, Locust, etc.

No, they cannot go around HG to the IP owners in Japan. HG's contract has to run its course and not be renewed. Its possible that HG's rights are also in perpetuity from Tatsunoko Production Co., Ltd. the owners of the IP in Japan. A big clue to HG's strangle hold on the IP is the fact that since FASA was found in violation of HG's IP, nobody, not even Microsoft's massive team of lawyers, could break. Do you really think Microsoft had no interest in bringing the unseen to MechWarrior and MechCommander? For those tittles having a Marauder or Phoenix Hawk in the game is like printing money. No. HG's lock on the IP in North America is air tight.

The unseen we have in MWO now are all the non-Harmony Gold designs. Those companies were happy doing a deal with PGI to allow those mechs in game, provided enough design changes were made to make them different enough from the original IP.

Check out the Thunderbolt from the 3025 TRO:

Which is the F4X Ironfoot from Dougram



and now the Thunderbolt in MWO:



PGI/IGP would have to do the same with HG to put redesigned Macross mechs in this game. HG is having none of that right now.

[Apnu]

1453 R, on 19 August 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's not worth the risk for Piranha to go after Harmony Gold's stuff. That company can and will do its dead-level best to sink any company that tires to go after the horrible bloated mutant fleshbeast that is Robotech - even tangentially, a'la Unseen 'Mechs - straight into bankruptcy. It's not worth risking the livelihoods of the company to try and get those 'Mechs in-game - even the Project Phoenix Reseen variations are, as I recall, something of a legal grey area because Harmony Gold is made of evil.

I wish I could like this post twice, its that good.

[Threat Doc]

Apnu, on 19 August 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

...

Yeah, I thought you'd say something like this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, and ride out whatever's coming. You believe what you want to believe, which I'm sure you believe is the truth, and I'll do the same thing, and everyone will be happier, I'm sure.

[Apnu]

Kay Wolf, on 19 August 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Yeah, I thought you'd say something like this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, and ride out whatever's coming. You believe what you want to believe, which I'm sure you believe is the truth, and I'll do the same thing, and everyone will be happier, I'm sure.

There's no believing. What happened is what happened, facts are true no matter if you believe them or not.

Here are the facts: http://www.qqmercs.com/?p=2859

This is the TL:DR version: FASA thought they had legal IP to use the designs in North America. They were sued by HG, and, in turn, counter sued HG. HG had more and better lawyers and began wall papering FASA offices. FASA cried "uncle!" and settled out of court. As a result of the settlement they gave up their rights to the Macross designs and HG has a lock on them for any derivative of FASA. Which in this case is Microsoft, since they own FASA Interactive and IGP/PGI who lease the MechWarrior license from Microsoft. As a precaution, FASA willingly boxed up the other mechs taken from other Japanese anime sources.

I imagine that PGI, after seeing how fast and hard HG jumped on the MWO launch trailer, decided to skip with the Macross designs all together. However, they did release the non-Macross designs in Project Phoenix which looks more like the redesigns than the original 3025 TRO images. So maybe PGI is holding back on the Macross designs as an expansion pack to sell us. Time will tell on that one.

However, the mech will look more like this:

Than this:

[IraqiWalker]

1453 R, on 19 August 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I know, late to the party and all, but having just read the thread again due to the latest update...

"...into some Clanner title"? REALLY, Russ? Can you at least do some research prior to posting one of these things so you sound a LITTLE less like a cold-hearted businessman completely unconcerned with the property you're working with?

Beedeedubs, Russman - the proper term would be "Star Captain", which is 'some Clanner title' that indicates a commander of a single Binary or trinary, the Clan military equivalents to the three-lance companies commanded by Inner Sphere Captains.

Jeez...what a way to start the damn morning...

He's a Spheroid. Mentioned it in one of the dev vlogs before.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 19 August 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Lily from animove]

What happens when a "merc corp" faction player founds a unit? Is that not working at all? Or can they somehow choose to be a house/clanfree Merc unit only restricted to be a faction merc. So they are Clan OR IS. but still without a specific faction within the big picture?

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 August 2014 - 01:45 AM.