30 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

The biggest problem with R&R was its effect on new players and how much it incentivized standstill camping. It is hard enough to get players to push now... with R&R it would never happen. MechWatcher Online.

I would like to see it as part of CW as that is a scenario under which it should be more sensible and there would be contracts to offset the expenses.

[Zyllos]

Jetfire, on 18 August 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

The biggest problem with R&R was its effect on new players and how much it incentivized standstill camping. It is hard enough to get players to push now... with R&R it would never happen. MechWatcher Online.

I would like to see it as part of CW as that is a scenario under which it should be more sensible and there would be contracts to offset the expenses.

Could you imagine a contract with no salvage rights? With R&R, either the pay must be high or the team would expect it to be an easy fight (how does that work?).

But, I do agree. R&R needs to return for CW.

[Vox Scorpus]

Forget the repair as that would hurt the new players and as a CB player it is more realistic but not as doable in this format. Rearm however is smart as you should pay for your bullets (you pay for consumable modules right? That is rearm already) but add some salvage to it as follows:

In CB whatever items that weren't destroyed from enemy mechs were the "salvage".
Allow players to opt in to rearm and salvage mode and award those players with actual items from destroyed mechs but not c-bills. These items would show up in your inventory at the end of the match. I see lots of med lasers, ammo etc with an occasional big ticket item like an lrm20 or erppc given out (they are usually destroyed in a match). It would have to be tested to make sure the items were given randomly and no 1 mech got several big ticket things while another mech saw nothing. If you can use an item great - otherwise sell it at normal (half) or maybe 1/4 if this would upset the c-bill balance (in my CB world some items were damaged and needed to be fixed first).

It is gratifying to get some salvaged items at the end of a match especially from a mech you had a hand in destroying! There are many options for this - it would just need to be tested.

[Loganauer]

I keep saying this and no one listens. The R&R system doesn't have to be implemented as it was, it can be implemented so it's more forgiving on new players, and rewards can be scaled so that it doesn't make the game any grindier, and you can give a damage taken bonus in games to encourage brawling/tanking so people don't just hide and snipe. Just off the top of my head, those can be done to counter the obvious problems.

I will agree it's better implemented with CW than right now.

Edited by Loganauer, 18 August 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Were you playing the same CB that I was playing?

You mean the one where you could easily have a heavy or assault win a match and lose money just from repair costs or even simply reloading it's LRM bay?

Why yes. Yes I was. Of course, people with premium time had much less issues, but F2P's really were restricted in what they could run.

[Demon Horde]

Nightmare1, on 07 August 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Repair and rearm are bad ideas. I still remember the uphill slog required to earn C-bills without Premium Time. Though it was interesting, it proved highly frustrating in the long run and will discourage new players. Since the game is already very hard on newbs, reintroducing repair and rearm would simply exacerbate the problem and discourage the player base from growing.

Besides, it would push the game further into the pay-to-play realm. As the game currently stands, it works well with its free-to-play model and I don't think that should be altered.

If you are frustrated with your solo pugging experience, then join a Unit. There are now a bevy of Clan Units, Faction Units, and Merc Units that you can join. Check them out. Most have TS servers and pretty much all of them have solid players who will improve your gaming experience.

i was gonna say it but you said it already. Repair and re-arm would require an entire overhaul of mission payouts , or it'd just screw over noobs. which would be a blunder of PGI's part. system is fine as it stands.

Edited by Demon Horde, 19 August 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

wanderer, on 19 August 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

You mean the one where you could easily have a heavy or assault win a match and lose money just from repair costs or even simply reloading it's LRM bay?

As I recall you had to work damn hard to loose money on a victory, blow 8 tonnes of Artemis LRM ammo and kill nothing type hard.

Even without premium, I routinely made 200-300k cbills on a match with the salvage bonus in my HBK-4SP. I ran standard structure because I didn't want to pay the extra repair costs. Unless you were running a XL engine, endo-steel, or a highly ammo dependent build, Closed Beta was actually way LESS grindy and more newbie-friendly than the current iteration. Nowadays, the rewards are smaller and and your mech aint worth **** if you don't have the 2 million plus to blow on DHS and endo-steel. Is that really your idea of improvement?

As others have noted there is not contract that says that the rewards have to be exactly as they were in closed beta, and frankly I consider anything that promotes thinking outside the current meta-flavor-of the month to be a good thing.

Matches are too heavy? Rather than having strictly enforced 3/3/3/3 why not encourage people to run lower tonnages by cranking up the rewards? Seriously, when I kill a DireWhale in my Locust I should be making CBills hand over fist.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I voted yes. I wasn't in closed beta, but repair/refit has always been a core component of the game.

An idea of the type of system I would like to see in the game from an earlier post of mine.

http://mwomercs.com/...chs-and-astech/

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 19 August 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Loganauer]

Demon Horde, on 19 August 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

i was gonna say it but you said it already. Repair and re-arm would require an entire overhaul of mission payouts , or it'd just screw over noobs. which would be a blunder of PGI's part. system is fine as it stands.

No, it would not require that, but it could. You know what that would involve? Shifting some numbers around. So difficult, I know. They could continually tweak the numbers until they're satisfied and it's fair. They can give new players an amnesty for 50 rounds or something too. Rewards can be increased to compensate for the repairs. It's a workable system.

Edited by Loganauer, 19 August 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Even without premium, I routinely made 200-300k cbills on a match with the salvage bonus in my HBK-4SP.

That would be before Paul trimmed down the match bonuses to about where they are today, at which point the public outcry trashed R&R entirely.

[Loganauer]

Which shows it wasn't a problem with R&R. That was a problem with nerfing the rewards from matches. R&R was excellent in concept, and with the whole planetary assault system in community warfare, with faction alliances, merc corps, and clans, they can add a whole new dynamic to R&R to make it more interesting.