21 replies to this topic

[Scimitar]

Well,

I've been playing MW:4 Mercs and equipment looting is an important part of the game but looting like that in a game like this would destroy all semblance of balance and profitability from the game. I really think looting is a pretty big part of mechworrior/battle tech so I've been mulling over methods to still include a loot system but one that wouldn't break everything forever.

My idea is that each member of the post battle wining team will be able to loot. The actually looting of the battlefield with be done using via a grid map of the current level. After the battle you'd be taken to the grid map and there would be highlighted areas on this map where loot might be found. You then have a limited amount of tries to pick the areas you'd like to loot. Sometimes you may find a part/weapon, others scrap materiel to be sold for c-bills or if you were unlucky nothing. Their would be more areas than you can possibly search per round of looting to make it a little fairer so everyone isn't rolling in c-bills and weapons but you could still have the chance of a post victory bonus.

Thoughts?

[Spleenslitta]

Well the idea is original and random enough to be worthy of consideration. I really want the dev's to comment on this or at least note it down as a potential salvage method.

[Scimitar]

I just feel it needs some element of salvage considering how many notable pilots in the universe have at one time or another driven salvaged mechs and considering the time frame (just post succession war era) looting is sill pretty important.

Edited by Scimitar, 21 June 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[DerMaulwurf]

If I understand this right, you want to loot objectives like warehouses after the fight? Fighting over something sounds reasonable.

If there is a reasonable spread of quality and chances (a LosTech weapon every now and then), I'd be okay with that. It just shouldn't be lottery with low chances and huge payouts like finding a Castle Brian for every 1000th player.

[zencynic]

I like the current MWO proposed loot system. If you play well, win or lose, you get C-bills. If you play really well and win, you get more C-bills

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind a bonus system as long as it was much, much more skill based than luck based.

Individual pilot XP/C-bill bonuses for

• First Blood
  
• First Kill
  
• Attempt to Capture
  
• Foil Capture Attempt
  
• Enemy mech section destroyed
  
• Enemy mech component destroyed
  
• Last Kill

Salvage might have a positive role in Community Warfare scenarios, but we have yet to see how that will be implimented

[00dlez]

Scimitar, on 21 June 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Well,

I've been playing MW:4 Mercs and equipment looting is an important part of the game but looting like that in a game like this would destroy all semblance of balance and profitability from the game. I really think looting is a pretty big part of mechworrior/battle tech so I've been mulling over methods to still include a loot system but one that wouldn't break everything forever.

My idea is that each member of the post battle wining team will be able to loot. The actually looting of the battlefield with be done using via a grid map of the current level. After the battle you'd be taken to the grid map and there would be highlighted areas on this map where loot might be found. You then have a limited amount of tries to pick the areas you'd like to loot. Sometimes you may find a part/weapon, others scrap materiel to be sold for c-bills or if you were unlucky nothing. Their would be more areas than you can possibly search per round of looting to make it a little fairer so everyone isn't rolling in c-bills and weapons but you could still have the chance of a post victory bonus.

Thoughts?

I'll just take the c-bills and get back to playing the game. This is too unreliable/mini-gamey for my tastes.

Edited by 00dlez, 21 June 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Chunkymonkey]

Most XP in match gets first pick and so on, but all together they should only take up 1/3rd of the sectors. I actually really like this idea, maybe have a intelligence report you can look at with the chances for salvage in a area and how rare/good it might be. I think that for a hit on a part, that part is unsalvageble but the loser can still repair it. But if the arm/leg is blown off, that counts as salvage but the loser can still repair. If the mech goes critical(boom boom) Than the repair cost to the loser is increased, and all the salvage is lost. If the mech just falls over and dies, then repair is easy for loser and there is ALOT of salvage in that sector, this way, the winners have to remember where they killed stuff to make use of the Intel report.


Alternivetly, they could be salvaging parts of a weapon at a time.

[Death Weasel]

zencynic, on 21 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind a bonus system as long as it was much, much more skill based than luck based.

Individual pilot XP/C-bill bonuses for

• First Blood
  
• First Kill
  
• Attempt to Capture
  
• Foil Capture Attempt
  
• Enemy mech section destroyed
  
• Enemy mech component destroyed
  
• Last Kill

excellent point Zencynic
Salvage in the form of bonus XP or C-bills should be part of the performance of the player / team.
Even in business the best bonuses go to the performers. Jobs that rely on a commission or tips, the better the service the better the pay.

[Scimitar]

Bumping shamelessly because I'm interested in others opinions

[Freyar]

zencynic, on 21 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

I like the current MWO proposed loot system. If you play well, win or lose, you get C-bills. If you play really well and win, you get more C-bills

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind a bonus system as long as it was much, much more skill based than luck based.

Individual pilot XP/C-bill bonuses for

• First Blood
  
• First Kill
  
• Attempt to Capture
  
• Foil Capture Attempt
  
• Enemy mech section destroyed
  
• Enemy mech component destroyed
  
• Last Kill

Salvage might have a positive role in Community Warfare scenarios, but we have yet to see how that will be implimented

How would you balance that for support mechs?

[zencynic]

Freyar, on 23 June 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

How would you balance that for support mechs?

The above list isn't meant to be all inclusive or final. Just me throwing out suggestions. As far as support mech...
Scout mechs will probably get 1st blood and attempts to capture
Any fire support mechs will do damage and thus get kills, equipment destruction, limb destruction, etc
Assault mechs left to guard the base will get denying capture

What kind of support mech were you worried about?

[Scimitar]

I understand you guys think additional xp and c-bills instead of loot is a good idea but it doesn't really work for game cannon purposes and it's probably already built into the existing xp and c-bill system anyway. I just think it would be cool to be able to get equipment rewards from whining fights and the only way I think you could keep it balanced is chance. Also the equipment rewards I'm talking about aren't LosTech large pulse lasers or anything spectacularly amazing like that, I was more thinking about equipment you can buy in the mech lab anyway until you get to higher ranked fights where only then you'd get a slim to none chance of getting something amazing but odds are you'd be getting MG arrays and SRM racks. There is huge cannon precedent for this sort of thing considering at the end of the 3rd succession war, Most warriors with a mech still standing had to salvage destroyed mechs to keep theirs running and this is only a couple years beyond that so mass spread of technoligy is still taking time, it's the reason why the clanners absolutely destroyed in their initial invasions.

[zencynic]

Scimitar, on 23 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I understand you guys think additional xp and c-bills instead of loot is a good idea but it doesn't really work for game cannon purposes and it's probably already built into the existing xp and c-bill system anyway. I just think it would be cool to be able to get equipment rewards from whining fights and the only way I think you could keep it balanced is chance. Also the equipment rewards I'm talking about aren't LosTech large pulse lasers or anything spectacularly amazing like that, I was more thinking about equipment you can buy in the mech lab anyway until you get to higher ranked fights where only then you'd get a slim to none chance of getting something amazing but odds are you'd be getting MG arrays and SRM racks. There is huge cannon precedent for this sort of thing considering at the end of the 3rd succession war.

I get where you are coming from, and I agree that this would be one way to do it. If they did it this way I would still play the game, and probably still enjoy the hell out of it.

That being said, I like that the Devs have gone with a no salvage option. I like that we are being financially rewarded in generic C-bills rather than random loot. If I finish every win with an extra SRM4 or 5 tones of AC/10 ammo or some such, that just creates another thing for me to do after a battle. <Sort it, decide what to keep, sell the rest>

If I get C-bills, I only buy what I want. My inventory stays uncluttered without much effort on my part. This same principle is why children like to get cash from relatives for birthdays and holidays, rather than socks and tooth brushes and toys or music that they may, but most probably will not, like.

That being said, there is one format where I could really enjoy seeing salvage - the dispossessed or nearly so. If you are down on your luck or brand new player, you could fight in "salvage" battles. You get to use, not have, one of a small selection of stock mechs. You don't need to worry about ammo or repairs. If you win, you get salvage equipment and a chance at salvaging a mech. I'm not sure how to balance it all, but I like the idea for special circumstances salvage, just not everyday in all battles.

If there needs to be a cannon reason, how about this. Salvage rights were fiercely negotiated by merc Corps with the Houses and the House armies themselves usually had to give anything they got back to the state. Salvage was a sometimes thing, not a whenever-I-win thing.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

I could see a salvage equipment system/mini-game working well and being enjoyable for a single player game, and I hope it's something they revisit when and if the time comes for a single player game. That being said, I think for an MMO of this type, keeping it simple would be the best option. Keep the learning curve from becoming a cliff. I'm not saying that "salvage" shouldn't be in the game, but just simplified. Either by C-Bills only, or a very low chance of getting a random piece of equipment, maybe even a combination of the two.

[Skoaljaw]

I would very much like to see how this all pans out. In addition I'd like to see a more player driven economy, i.e. selling salvage, lostech, ammo, specialty items, uncommons/rares etc..

[Hotthedd]

A few months ago I posted a suggestion for Salvage Points that was well received.

Basically, the winning team would receive SP (like a currency) that could be used to buy mechs, weapons, and equipment, including clantech (if mixtech is allowed in the game).

Salvage points would be awarded to the winning team based on the undestroyed components of any downed enemy mechs (as opposed to C-bill bonuses based on destroyed parts of enemy mechs).

[Bendak]

Hotthedd, on 02 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

A few months ago I posted a suggestion for Salvage Points that was well received.

Basically, the winning team would receive SP (like a currency) that could be used to buy mechs, weapons, and equipment, including clantech (if mixtech is allowed in the game).

Salvage points would be awarded to the winning team based on the undestroyed components of any downed enemy mechs (as opposed to C-bill bonuses based on destroyed parts of enemy mechs).

Sounds like a teribad idea. The strong get stronger... Salvage doesn't really work in this game... don't like the sound of this game moving towards Diablo 3.

[Volthorne]

I don't recall a File Transfer Protocol ever being required to make loots drops work. Did I miss some technological reversal?

[Typhoon Storm 2142]

Scimitar, on 21 June 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Thoughts?

Minigames in MWO? No. Be happy with the C-Bills you earn after a fight. If you want more, then propose a higher reward after a match. But implementing minigames is a really, really bad idea.

[Neolisk]

zencynic, on 21 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind a bonus system as long as it was much, much more skill based than luck based.
Individual pilot XP/C-bill bonuses for [...]

+1. Need a bonus for escaping while being targeted by more than X number of enemies within 2 seconds (target lost) - for lights. The bonus is given for target switch, a nice trick that allows your allies to advance towards enemy lines, or change cover.

Also, for killing an enemy mech while being targeted by more than X enemies - for all mechs. Just cause I think you should be rewarded for shooting back while being targeted, and not just run due to being outnumbered (which never works - you get killed before you get to cover).

Let X = 3 and see how it works. More skill-based bonuses should reduce the need in extra income (from loot or elsewhere). You should be able to earn as high as 300K C-Bills per match, without premium or cadet bonus. Right now I find my 125K average income rather plain.