692 replies to this topic

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

DV McKenna, on 08 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

And you fail to understand that trying to balance as you call it random and new players is fruitless; because you'll just add avenues for the better players to exploit.

In what you've just said your not happy to skew the results one way; but are perfectly happy to skew the results in another?

Clans don't have trials and champions giving them a mech number advantage on the field in this test; number advantage as well as tech advantage obviously would lead to a superior result for the clans....

How am I skewing anything? I said that you can't determine what is being skewed. What can be considered "skewed" depends on which environment the balancing is geared towards.

You're arguing that what happens in Pug matches don't matter. That you can't use statistics gathered from the Solo Queue (random uncontrolled environment) to form a conclusion on the balance between Clan and IS Mechs. The only way to "balance" the game is through cherry-picked conditions that don't reflect the game as a whole. That when CW comes around, it's okay for the Clan crowd to have a 90% chance of winning their matches in the Solo....... Oh... I see...

Well, in that case, the argument you're trying to make definitely makes sense.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 08 August 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 08 August 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Can you tell me with 100% certainty which Queue represents the game?

I can tell you that 100% the group queue will show Mechs with people that generally, use teamwork, cutting edge strategies, don't take many joke builds, and try to Min/Max their machines and team loadout, and try their hardest..

Sounds like JUST the place to try and see if equipment works well in a team game, when built out the best they can be with people that know how to eek the most out of them.

I'm not saying it represents the game, but its 10000% more consistent than whatever happens in the PuG queue.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

DV McKenna, on 08 August 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

I think we are all aware they won 90% of matches in a random uncontrolled environment stacked in their favour.

Precisely why the results are in question.

Again. clap this out with me... ready...? there... are.... more.... tests.... to... come.... Clap it out like your learning words, it might help.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Technoviking, on 08 August 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

I can tell you that 100% the group queue will show Mechs with people that generally, use teamwork, cutting edge strategies, don't take many joke builds, and try to Min/Max their machines and team loadout, and try their hardest..

Sounds like JUST the place to try and see if equipment works well in a team game, when built out the best they can be with people that know how to eek the most out of them.

I'm not saying it represents the game, but its 10000% more consistent than whatever happens in the PuG queue.

I've already agreed that when it comes to equipment, a controlled environment is ideal. When it comes to whether or not Clan Mechs are far superior to IS Mechs, you can't have your controlled environment. Group Queue doesn't reflect Solo Queue. You have to include everyone in order to obtain relevant information regarding the general effectiveness of Clan Mechs against IS Mechs. You can't just limit your sample to Group play. You have to factor in the Solo Queue or you'll have sample bias.

PGI tested it twice. They felt their numbers we good enough to say

The result was a 90% win-rate for Clan Mechs. Altering the conditions of the test in an attempt to obtain desired results... yea... Let's also ignore the fact that more tests are going to be occurring.

What are you gonna do when CW rolls around and Clan Mechs are winning 90% of the matches being fought in the Solo Queue? You're not gonna have much of a population left, will you?

Please don't rebut with "All the Clan Mechs will eventually be available for C-Bills/MC."
Yeah, they will. It will still cost hundreds of millions of C-Bills to Elite out a Chassis on top of the customization and equip cost. All the Solo Queue players have that kind of scratch (game/real) accumulated, right?

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 08 August 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 08 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Again. clap this out with me... ready...? there... are.... more.... tests.... to... come.... Clap it out like your learning words, it might help.

They've. Already. Made. Changes. Based. On. Terrible. Tests. More....to .... come.

Not excited.

[CeeKay Boques]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 08 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

I've already agreed that when it comes to equipment, a controlled environment is ideal. When it comes to whether or not Clan Mechs are far superior to IS Mechs, you can't have your controlled environment. Group Queue doesn't reflect Solo Queue. You have to include everyone in order to obtain relevant information regarding the general effectiveness of Clan Mechs against IS Mechs. You can't just limit your sample to Group play. You have to factor in the Solo Queue or you'll have sample bias.

When I say Equipment, I think everything chassis, weapons, electronics, armor. We can just agree disagree on this one. The PuG queue (the place I have most of my games, btw) is too freaking random to test ANYTHING other than whether or not the server can handle X or Y shouldn't test anything whereby the metric is win/loss/damage. Solo queue is really just too random, from day to day. That's the point. You wont' get any good numbers, from 12pm to 2pm on a damn Wednesday.

If your point is that they should make changes based on the random pilots with money who bought mechs vs random pilots who happen to be in the solo queue at 1pm on a Wednesday because hey man, that's the world we live in,, well I'll have to concede that this would be the best way to do it.

[Yokaiko]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 08 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Yeah, they will. It will still cost hundreds of millions of C-Bills to Elite out a Chassis on top of the customization and equip cost. All the Solo Queue players have that kind of scratch accumulated, right?

Holy crap could you be more wrong.

[Suko]

DV McKenna, on 08 August 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

And people like yourself and funkydelic who can't read.

The clans are OP in some aspects see XL engines; but not by an order of 90/10

Go search this thread for all my posts. Go do it, I'll wait.

Now tell me where I said they're an order of 90/10 OP? Anywhere? No? Oh, so where did you read that then McKenna? 'Cause I didn't say it. In fact, I said that PGI did a pretty good job getting Clans CLOSE to balanced on their first try (Far better than I would've guessed they could). But I've been vocal since day 1 that these mechs are NOT on the same level as the IS mechs. It's just nice to see my anecdotal perspective and experience being backed up by hard numbers and PGI itself.

Perhaps next time it would be smart not to attack people and accuse them of things they haven't said or done. Think before you post.

[COOL HANDS]

To tell you the truth I'm kinda surprised that pgi released that information. I thought they would have hid that bit of information for sure from the community. I always had a feeling that clans had more advantages over the is but I didn't qq about it. So I just waited for some official results. But there it is in black and white, wow the numbers don't lie. Speaking for myself personally I'm glad I didn't purchase a clan mech. I don't think it would have sat well with me knowing that the reason I was winning my matches was due to my mech having advantages over the opposition.

[Ultimax]

Hillslam, on 08 August 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

You have little to no idea how the data was collected. The numbers involved. Etc.

Neither do you.

You don't know what or how it was collected, the numbers involved.

The compositions of teams.

The total tonnage vs. tonnage.

The amount of ECM vs. no ECM.



You don't know any of these things either, and yet you are here acting just as convinced as the people you are trying to lambast.

[Mcgral18]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 08 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Please don't rebut with "All the Clan Mechs will eventually be available for C-Bills/MC."
Yeah, they will. It will still cost hundreds of millions of C-Bills to Elite out a Chassis on top of the customization and equip cost. All the Solo Queue players have that kind of scratch (game/real) accumulated, right?

It shouldn't cost more than 50 million to buy and equip 3 timberwolves. None are over 16 mil each, and are all closer to 15 mil, if the math used for the Cute Fox is still true.

https://docs.google....RoSQ/edit#gid=0

But I guess data isn't really your strong suit.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

ShadowVFX, on 08 August 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Go search this thread for all my posts. Go do it, I'll wait.

Now tell me where I said they're an order of 90/10 OP? Anywhere? No? Oh, so where did you read that then McKenna? 'Cause I didn't say it. In fact, I said that PGI did a pretty good job getting Clans CLOSE to balanced on their first try (Far better than I would've guessed they could). But I've been vocal since day 1 that these mechs are NOT on the same level as the IS mechs. It's just nice to see my anecdotal perspective and experience being backed up by hard numbers and PGI itself.

Perhaps next time it would be smart not to attack people and accuse them of things they haven't said or done. Think before you post.

Proving my point of you can't read? Because I didn't say you did say they were; you possibly want to re read what I actually wrote.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mcgral18, on 08 August 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

It shouldn't cost more than 50 million to buy and equip 3 timberwolves. None are over 16 mil each, and are all closer to 15 mil, if the math used for the Cute Fox is still true.

https://docs.google....RoSQ/edit#gid=0

But I guess data isn't really your strong suit.

Because people are only going to get 1 Chassis, right?

[Yokaiko]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 08 August 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Because people are only going to get 1 Chassis, right?

No dipshit that is for all three.

[Jman5]

I think we all know who the real masterminds were manipulating the data from the shadows! PGI DON'T BE FOOLED!

Edited by Jman5, 08 August 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Ultimatum X, on 08 August 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Neither do you.

You don't know what or how it was collected, the numbers involved.

The compositions of teams.

The total tonnage vs. tonnage.

The amount of ECM vs. no ECM.



You don't know any of these things either, and yet you are here acting just as convinced as the people you are trying to lambast.

And the Goldenmech crowd claims the results are skewed without having any first-hand knowledge of what/how things are being done, what factors are being considered in the "balance" process. You only have your own speculation on why the numbers are "skewed".

Everyone else is simply accepting what PGI decided to release because there is nothing to refute their numbers and are simply poking you all in the eye over the constant "Clan Tech is not P2W". The only metric we have to gauge the validity of that assertion is the 90% win-rate of the Clan teams. In CW, play as Clan, win 90% of your matches. That's pretty "P2W" to me.

[Mystere]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 08 August 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

All you people QQing knowing darn well Russ said they will be doing tests from now tell the fall need to go eat a nilla cookie and take a nap.

It is coming:

[Mcgral18]

Yokaiko, on 08 August 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

No dipshit that is for all three.

The costs are all pretty reasonable as well.

I guess he didn't even look at the spreadsheet?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Technoviking, on 08 August 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

They've. Already. Made. Changes. Based. On. Terrible. Tests. More....to .... come.

Not excited.

This right here is the problem. Back to old PGI crappy balancing (if it ever left). Paul needs to go.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Yokaiko, on 08 August 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

No dipshit that is for all three.

You realize the word Chassis can be used both as singular and plural? Chassis can also refer to Timberwolf Chassis, Warhawk Chassis, Direwolf Chassis.

How about you learn some ******* english.

Maybe "Mech" is easier for you to understand.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 08 August 2014 - 10:19 AM.