14 replies to this topic

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Time to stop beating around the bush and end this absolute bull!$*&. Make cockpit no longer take damage from strikes AT ALL, you know, kinda like what they did with lrms.

This just happened. I was under the effect of 2 artillery strikes total within 3 mins of the game starting. I did not notice taking damage from any source other than the strikes, the first one hit me (caused screenshake) no less than 4 times and left my RA in red armor before i was shot by anything else- and before you say anything the smoke was behind me and 100% unavoidable- and left me at 85% (from 100.) I got into a minor fight with one mech as supporting fire (which is apparently when i got hit by the whole 2 shots from actual enemies) as they were capping our base and we pushed them out and killed one. As I walked by the base I was hit by the second artillery strike which hit me 2 or 3 times. I saw my cockpit flash from yellow armor to orange internals from the first hit then i was dead before i could tell what else happened.

My last x2 exp bonus with premium completely screwed out of my hands on the mech that needs the most exp with no amount of skill able to combat stupid RNG mechanics. I will not let this die until something is done. Air strikes do not have this problem, it's the stupid random pattern of artillery shells that somehow can let two shells hit the cockpit back-to-back. I had been slowed to a near stop aiming a shot at someone near the base and hit accelerate after noticing the explosions (again, smoke was not visible and since there is no warning or time for people to warn others in chat, gg) so I was moving under 40 kph.

I just can not understand how they feel fine to swing the Thor's almighty hammer of Nerf on to the CERLL when artillery, FLD, hell even dual gauss, is more prominent as fun-harming game mechanics that could use tweaking.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nope. I'll not support this. You get hit with a random amount of damage, that hits your armor randomly... You have a chance of dying in a blink. That is combat. It's perfectly legal and you just keep getting the short end, I have died to Arty twice since it went live and neither time was to decapitation.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 August 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[BourbonFaucet]

I've never died to arty, it's just put all my components in orange.

Even the rear armor.

They'll all basically been armor taxes.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Use more than 4 armor in your cockpit and it won't happen.

[Mcgral18]

Mister D, on 07 August 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Use more than 4 armor in your cockpit and it won't happen.

If only that were possible...33 max IS+A. 35 damage shell.


20 shells at 20 damage. More damage, more chance of hitting, no instagibbing.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Mister D, on 07 August 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Use more than 4 armor in your cockpit and it won't happen.

I have never taken more than 2 points of armor off my cockpit on ANY mech, and this one had full armor. Try harder.

Joseph Mallan, on 07 August 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Nope. I'll not support this. You get hit with a random amount of damage, that hits your armor randomly... You have a chance of dying in a blink. That is combat. It's perfectly legal and you just keep getting the short end, I have died to Arty twice since it went live and neither time was to decapitation.

I agree, let's also require an electric shock suit to be worn while playing such that you feel the pain your pilot would feel as your mech gets knocked around and shot, and when you get cockpitted the suit kills you because that is what would actually happen in real combat! Oh, also lets have a forced webcam and when your mech does the killing blow of another mech you sometimes get to watch the player die in real life because that also can happen in real combat!

On a serious note I can not converse with a person that thinks RNG mechanics are fun and balanced in competitive MP games.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Well I rarely run more than 16 armor in my head on majority of my mechs, and quite often use much less.

And in 100 games, I've been blown out of my cockpit by arty twice, and both times that was after eating 3 strikes.

They already toned down head damage from arty quite a bit, to the point where I was running 6-8 armor in my cockpit and really didn't worry about it at all.

Is it airstrikes or artillery that seem to be blowing your cockpit armor away?
And which Mech are you piloting, some are alot easier to be headshot than others, could be part of the problem.

Its a given that arty spam is at a ridiculous level since the Module change.

[Pjwned]

Instead of having (up to) 10 shells that hit for 35 damage each (down from 40 damage previously) it should be (up to) 20 shells for 20 damage each, that way you won't get cored out in the head from 1 shot, and it would be more like a barrage of artillery fire which seems to fit better if you ask me. That would mostly be for artillery strikes, I don't think changing air strikes would really be warranted since it pretty much hits in a straight line, but I wouldn't really complain if air strikes got a similar treatment.

I would also like to see artillery strikes have a cone of fire so that you can't just place a strike behind somebody where they can't see it, but really the biggest issue is dying in 1 hit by a RNG shell in any mech regardless of how much cockpit armor you have and that's just stupid.

Edited by Pjwned, 07 August 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Considering these types of attacks are 'TOP' attack, and there's very little 'splash' damage being done now, I don't see your issue with having the top sitting cockpit be impacted by these weapon systems.

- That is what they are actually designed to do. (and not an uncommon effect from Arty.)

With the latest reduction on the number of strikes that can be carried, I'd say you were most likely in the open for far too long. And the enemy had ample opportunity to fire, wait for the travel time, and the red flair, and still strike you.

This weapon is only a small unit in what is due to be released for 'indirect' and 'semi-indirect' systems.
- We have yet to see the Arrow IV,
~ (directed by a TAG unit, so there will be no getting away from that homing missile) (Dmg 20/10)
- The 'Sniper' weapon (dmg 20 direct /10 radius)
- The 'Thumper' weapon (Dmg 15/5)
- And the Big guy, the Long Tom. (dmg 25/15/5)

If anything should be done it is to further reduce just who or what can carry or call for these systems.
- Are they 'Role' based?
- Are they system based?
Should you need some form of 'Command' component in order to have the equipment to call in 'supporting' munitions?
- Do we need to start separating the communications capabilities of the chassis into what they are listed as having?

Not very many Mech chassis have a full suite of C3 equipped systems, normally only Command and Scout elements. Most only carry the C1 level of comms that did not allow 'shared' targeting. PGI has given everything the full C3 enhanced package and seriously broken from Tech and Documented abilities. And made the roll of Scouts somewhat moot.
- If we seriously needed Scouts to locate and maintain targets for us you would see quite the increase in these chassis being fielded. And the Bonus and C-Bills to follow.
(currently the light Mech is very low on the Pilot choice tree, probably due to not enough tasks directly requiring this chassis. And very little 'profit' gained. Yes they are great for NARC, TAG, and UAV's, but still not 'really' fulfilling the true Mech's roll.)

Just some thoughts,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 07 August 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 07 August 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

...it's the stupid random pattern of artillery shells that somehow can let two shells hit the cockpit back-to-back.

So artillery bombardments should feel un-random? That's like complaining about the way rain falls.

[Sean von Steinike]

Can't say I ever died to arty that wasn't my own (well maybe once), calling it down on my position. I rarely even get hit by it. Some people whine about everything.

[and zero]

artillery headshots are not the problem. ******* absurd artillery/aristrike spamming is the problem.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Sean von Steinike, on 07 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

Can't say I ever died to arty that wasn't my own (well maybe once), calling it down on my position. I rarely even get hit by it. Some people whine about everything.

Dying solely and obviously from RNG in a supposedly skill-based game isn't acceptable to me even if it only happens once every 100 games. It's just good design philosophy to limit frustration.

9erRed, on 07 August 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

With the latest reduction on the number of strikes that can be carried, I'd say you were most likely in the open for far too long. And the enemy had ample opportunity to fire, wait for the travel time, and the red flair, and still strike you.

Those strike # reductions aren't ingame yet and I was pushing them out of our base with my team. We weren't overly bunched up, the strike that hit me may have hit at most 1 or 2 allies glancingly. I knew there was a danger of strikes any time you are near an objective but A) I wasn't in the square, and I was at 85% (lost 15% from first strike...) and nothing was even REMOTELY close to critical damage, so it was a calculated risk who's outcome would be annoying at worst in 99% of worst case-scenarios. Death wasn't (or shouldn't have been) even a remote possibility.

[CocoaJin]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 08 August 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Dying solely and obviously from RNG in a supposedly skill-based game isn't acceptable to me even if it only happens once every 100 games. It's just good design philosophy to limit frustration.

There is reasonable means of applying RNG in skilled based games, especially those that attempt to provide a high level of detail, but needs to short cut yo resource intensive methods of number crunching for physics.

It's not as black and white as done people try to suggest with respect to using RNG...though it is important that it is supplied well. For instances, artillery can be RNG based since it may not worth the resources to generate, track and calculate individual projectiles. Because artillery has not traditionally been a pin point accurate munition, it's reasonable to save the resources by providing a RNG component to their delivery in game...yes, actual physics based projectiles would be better, but in this case, the return on resource investment is good using RNG.

Another example, screen shake while using JJs could very well have an RNG component to it. It's cheaper to use RNG than it is to crunch the numbers to accurately simulate the actual forces that cause screen shake. Since screen shake is good detail to include in the fleshing out of the MechWarrior immersion experience, the use if RNG in this case is a positive addition.

An extension of screen shake would be cross-hair wobble and shot dispersion. I feel this would be a good addition to game, it would diminish the issue of pinpoint damage alphas and would have gone along way in staving off many of the nerds and I'll reviewed weapon adjustments had it been implemented on day one. Well, the mist cost effective way to model wobble and dispersion would be a well constructed RNG model since modeling every aspect of the physics required to model weapon impulses, moment forces, vibration, weapon self-adjustment response times, player and weapon system induced oscillations, etc due to weapon firing and mech movement forces.

I agree, willy-nilly RNG sucks. But well designed RNG can be an expensive means of adding great detail, immersion and depth to a game such MWO. By doing it well, it mimics all the small minutiae of variables and details that are apart of combat that are frequently unable to be accounted for completely or at all by the weapon systems/platform and pilot. This provides some of the seeming "randomness" so often experienced by combatants in the heat of battle...without needing to model every aspect of reality to get them.

[AlmightyAeng]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 07 August 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

I have never taken more than 2 points of armor off my cockpit on ANY mech, and this one had full armor. Try harder.

I agree, let's also require an electric shock suit to be worn while playing such that you feel the pain your pilot would feel as your mech gets knocked around and shot, and when you get cockpitted the suit kills you because that is what would actually happen in real combat! Oh, also lets have a forced webcam and when your mech does the killing blow of another mech you sometimes get to watch the player die in real life because that also can happen in real combat!

On a serious note I can not converse with a person that thinks RNG mechanics are fun and balanced in competitive MP games.

If we do that can we also re-institute R&R...and if you don't repair your mech you continue to get painful electro-feedback?

MONEY IS PAIN!

This whole idea appeals to the boy inside me who thought the Monte Carlo scene in Never Say Never Again was the coolest idea for a videogame ever.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 08 August 2014 - 09:20 AM.