606 replies to this topic

[Exzander]

One idea could be to make missile locks similar to MW4. The locks themselves locked on for a while, even when not looking at the 'Mech, but required a solid 15-20 seconds of direct visual sight on the 'Mech to actually acquire the lock.

Edited by Exodus23, 09 August 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Calamus]

no. not signed.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

letuce head, on 09 August 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

People who use LRMs need to be able to get kills too. There is one thing about them that bothers me though, I have a locust that goes 169km/h, this is the fastest speed any mech in the game can go. Speed is how the locust survives..... unless someone is shooting lrms at you, lrms should not be able to hit a mech going that fast.

TDK - 171,1 km/h. It shouldn't be to outrun the missiles, it should be to run into cover faster.

General OT: Failed to adept, Yelling for nerf.

[Egomane]

As this is just one more nerf-LRM threads, I fail to see a real suggestion here. I'll move this thread to the GD forums where all its twins recide.

[El Bandito]

Exodus23, on 08 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

As of late, many common direct fire weapons are being nerfed, by speed, damage, or added heat and ghost heat, this has left the untouched LRMs greatly overpowered. When all projectiles have a slow travel speed, and the last buff in LRM speed, it has made it difficult, if not impossible for any direct fire 'Mech to combat against multiple, or even one LRM boat. This unbalancing has lead to a large number of LRM boating teams in the group queue, and many LRM boats in group queue. This has made any team or player running a direct fire build or brawler an easy target for those who sit behind hills and simply fire rockets when they have a radar lock. Now, I understand that LRM boats have a purpose, but they should not make up the majority of MWO. Never in lore has any company run with the meaning of only LRMs. I feel that the way to balance the LRMs would be to either lower the speed on LRMs, or increase heat generated and ghost heat of firing multiple launchers. If you have any other ideas, feel free to post them here.

Even during the challenge weekend I have not seen the LRM boats being the majority. You simply exaggerate. Never in the history of MWO have I seen LRM only company in the pug matches. In fact, an all brawler team should beat an all LRM boat team very easily. You cannot fault the weapon because of player psychology.

Plus LRMs already has GH.

LRMs need balancing but that balancing is directly tied to ECM balancing.

letuce head, on 09 August 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

People who use LRMs need to be able to get kills too. There is one thing about them that bothers me though, I have a locust that goes 169km/h, this is the fastest speed any mech in the game can go. Speed is how the locust survives..... unless someone is shooting lrms at you, lrms should not be able to hit a mech going that fast.

You want a 20 ton bipedal hunk of metal to run faster than missiles? Now BT is fictional, but your statement is straight out of Lalaland.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[StraferX]

Lrm's spam is insane and should be disabled in pug play. Reduce LRM ammo 1 to 5, increase damage, put back the required range to a minimum of 150km when did rockets become direct fire. make cover actualy work.

Better yet give us more maps. The lack of map content is sick. One gets board playing the same map over and over and over and over and over. also voip.

Lrm's in private matches are not so bat with organized teams but in pug play lrm's are sick to see.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

nerfing is not the solution.

The issue is with the amount.

Literally one game I ran out of AMS ammo (two tons before anyone says bring more) in less than two minutes into the match... it was just a constant stream of missiles flying around..

i was undercover so i was ok.. but one sorry ******* stepped out... he was dead inside 10 seconds...

I don't mind LRM boats, or LRMS.. but I don't think it's cool when you have a team compromised of 6+ LRM boats, with like 1000 ammo on some of their builds.

Yeah if I can get within 100 meters i'll own their asses.. problem is my mech can't travel 900m within 10 seconds...

Note also this wasn't an issue when the clans came out.. it's when this god forsaken challenge came out that the LRM boats came to float again.

Like i said in the beginning, i've been playing enough to see that its not an issue of Nerfing as it is just an issue of "control"... the MM at the moment is placing too many lrm boat mechs on some teams.

I'd suggest a limit to the amount of LRMs you can put on a mech (not the launchers but the ammo itself) but I can already see and hear the LRM players come at this thread with full venom in anger that people want their "play" style ruined.

In all honestly, aside from a mech that was designed to be an LRM boat (Catapult), I don't think you should be able to make certain mechs LRMboats.

Another suggestion (credit to this really goes to Koniving for pointing this out) would be following more accurate launcher tubes for the chassis. An example would be those Atlas DDC LRM boats... the atlas in BT has only 5 tubes.. my newer DDC that I bought, i put 3xLRM5 on it, and with chain fire its struck me as being similar to what it's supposed to be like, fast launching 5 tubes.. It's not boating, doesn't launch ridiculous salvos, if the guy has ams i won't hardly touch him, and overall doesn't strike me as being ridiculous as have 3XLRM20 launchers on a mech which technically shouldn't be able to fit that many tubes into it in the first place..

just a thought, before spitting venom at my face for your beloved LRM builds, take a moment of consideration for those of us who like to play MWO the way the older MW games were played... by shooting and brawling and having an actual duel with a foe you can see.... not just target lock "bombs away!!" lrms everywhere ermagawd! I pawn'd em! Missile warfare.

[El Bandito]

BaronBastardKiller, on 10 August 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

take a moment of consideration for those of us who like to play MWO the way the older MW games were played... by shooting and brawling and having an actual duel with a foe you can see.... not just target lock "bombs away!!" lrms everywhere ermagawd! I pawn'd em! Missile warfare.

Previous MWs? You mean like MW4 where poptarts with their Gauss/ERPPC/ERLLasers made the game stale as ****? Or you mean MW3 where Gausszilla Annihilators were two shotting every opposition?

LRMs do need rework. Longer CD, higher damage, lower impulse for example. But the indirect fire should only be touched if the ECM is reworked.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2014 - 03:08 AM.

[wanderer]

Morritse, on 09 August 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

So many things wrong with what you've said. Now obviously a good LRM team will loose to an good direct fire team. But guess what? 90% of the drops in this game are not one coordinated team against the other. In normal matches, with small groups or solo queue, LRMs tend to do better than direct fire.

Theres a reason they arent used in competetive play but are used so much more elsewhere. Because they're good against uncoordinated players.

Oh, so you mean that given a choice between a winning layout and one that has a lower chance of winning, the player should choose the weaker option.

Funny, I thought the idea was to win. If the LRM is effective, than people should use it more often. If the solo queue is dumb enough not to learn how to deal with it like better players do, then they can keep dying to it.

ECM. Radar dep modules. Map awareness. Actual cover vs concealment.

If you can't handle those, then yes- you deserve to suffer and keep suffering until you learn to play. It's not neurosurgery. It's a relatively simple IQ test, as there is no magical fairy dust that keeps some players almost immune to LRM barrages and others going to pieces in 30 seconds because they didn't make a proper offering to Cluetonia, Goddess of Common Sense.

Weapons should never be nerfed on account of stupid. Getting repeatedly bashed to death by the blunt force trauma that is LRM barrages is a sign that you have failed fundamentally at the basics of the game, and should go home and be a family man instead of a punching bag.

[El Bandito]

wanderer, on 10 August 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Weapons should never be nerfed on account of stupid. Getting repeatedly bashed to death by the blunt force trauma that is LRM barrages is a sign that you have failed fundamentally at the basics of the game, and should go home and be a family man instead of a punching bag.

[quackychief]

I would agree with a slightly lowered attack angle, other than that i think lrms are in a good position. Other than fluke matches, it takes skill to use lrms well, but also it possible to avoid lrms as well with a bit of skill

[Tharnes]

LRM need a major rework & nerfs.
Currently they don't take any skill to use and majorly degrade the gameplay.

[beerandasmoke]

wanderer, on 10 August 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Oh, so you mean that given a choice between a winning layout and one that has a lower chance of winning, the player should choose the weaker option.

Funny, I thought the idea was to win. If the LRM is effective, than people should use it more often. If the solo queue is dumb enough not to learn how to deal with it like better players do, then they can keep dying to it.

ECM. Radar dep modules. Map awareness. Actual cover vs concealment.

If you can't handle those, then yes- you deserve to suffer and keep suffering until you learn to play. It's not neurosurgery. It's a relatively simple IQ test, as there is no magical fairy dust that keeps some players almost immune to LRM barrages and others going to pieces in 30 seconds because they didn't make a proper offering to Cluetonia, Goddess of Common Sense.

Weapons should never be nerfed on account of stupid. Getting repeatedly bashed to death by the blunt force trauma that is LRM barrages is a sign that you have failed fundamentally at the basics of the game, and should go home and be a family man instead of a punching bag.

I too worship Cluetonia. Seriously guys, the only nerf they need is screenshake. You guys are just freaking out because of the LRM spam this weekend from people trying to get their 20 kills. Theres just a lot of pants on head players gunning for the free mechbay. Of course those guys are going to melt to the LRM spam. Nothing much you can do about it except go down fighting.

[Lightfoot]

I vote. No.

I am still not taking much damage from LRMs even when the skies glow with them. They are just too easy to spoof, evade, and then you are on top of the LRM mech and they have nothing to stop you but a few lasers.

This year my mechs have been killed by LRMs 7 or 8 times. If anything they need a Line of Sight buff because it's a bit to easy to just charge into them from 400 meters. Unless some vital area is orange internals, you have nothing to fear.

[Lyoto Machida]

BaronBastardKiller, on 10 August 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

nerfing is not the solution.

The issue is with the amount.

Literally one game I ran out of AMS ammo (two tons before anyone says bring more) in less than two minutes into the match... it was just a constant stream of missiles flying around..

i was undercover so i was ok.. but one sorry ******* stepped out... he was dead inside 10 seconds...

I don't mind LRM boats, or LRMS.. but I don't think it's cool when you have a team compromised of 6+ LRM boats, with like 1000 ammo on some of their builds.

Yeah if I can get within 100 meters i'll own their asses.. problem is my mech can't travel 900m within 10 seconds...

Note also this wasn't an issue when the clans came out.. it's when this god forsaken challenge came out that the LRM boats came to float again.

Like i said in the beginning, i've been playing enough to see that its not an issue of Nerfing as it is just an issue of "control"... the MM at the moment is placing too many lrm boat mechs on some teams.

I'd suggest a limit to the amount of LRMs you can put on a mech (not the launchers but the ammo itself) but I can already see and hear the LRM players come at this thread with full venom in anger that people want their "play" style ruined.

In all honestly, aside from a mech that was designed to be an LRM boat (Catapult), I don't think you should be able to make certain mechs LRMboats.

Another suggestion (credit to this really goes to Koniving for pointing this out) would be following more accurate launcher tubes for the chassis. An example would be those Atlas DDC LRM boats... the atlas in BT has only 5 tubes.. my newer DDC that I bought, i put 3xLRM5 on it, and with chain fire its struck me as being similar to what it's supposed to be like, fast launching 5 tubes.. It's not boating, doesn't launch ridiculous salvos, if the guy has ams i won't hardly touch him, and overall doesn't strike me as being ridiculous as have 3XLRM20 launchers on a mech which technically shouldn't be able to fit that many tubes into it in the first place..

just a thought, before spitting venom at my face for your beloved LRM builds, take a moment of consideration for those of us who like to play MWO the way the older MW games were played... by shooting and brawling and having an actual duel with a foe you can see.... not just target lock "bombs away!!" lrms everywhere ermagawd! I pawn'd em! Missile warfare.

Hardpoint inflation all around is the reason for this. Instead of ghost heat, maybe PGI should have limited hardpoints by what was stock on the mech to begin with. If you tried to put a bigger weapon (AC20/Gauss in the MG hardpoints on the K2) where a smaller one was stock, there should have been some sort of penalty to cooldown or whatever.

Without hardpoint inflation, variants/chassis would have had more differentiation between them. Why does an AWE-8R get 60 tubes when it only comes with 2 LRM15s stock?

A Banshee 3E comes stock with a PPC, small laser and an AC5...why does it get 4 energy and 4 ballistic slots?

Or maybe they should leave the hardpoints but limit the amount of tubes based on what it had stock. You put 4x15 on the AWE-8R and it shoots out 2 salvos of 30 LRMs. Throw an AC20 into that AC5 slot on the BNC-3E and your cooldown is x amount longer, etc.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

wanderer, on 10 August 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Oh, so you mean that given a choice between a winning layout and one that has a lower chance of winning, the player should choose the weaker option.

Funny, I thought the idea was to win. If the LRM is effective, than people should use it more often. If the solo queue is dumb enough not to learn how to deal with it like better players do, then they can keep dying to it.

ECM. Radar dep modules. Map awareness. Actual cover vs concealment.

If you can't handle those, then yes- you deserve to suffer and keep suffering until you learn to play. It's not neurosurgery. It's a relatively simple IQ test, as there is no magical fairy dust that keeps some players almost immune to LRM barrages and others going to pieces in 30 seconds because they didn't make a proper offering to Cluetonia, Goddess of Common Sense.

Weapons should never be nerfed on account of stupid. Getting repeatedly bashed to death by the blunt force trauma that is LRM barrages is a sign that you have failed fundamentally at the basics of the game, and should go home and be a family man instead of a punching bag.

You have a serious attitude problem.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

El Bandito, on 10 August 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

Previous MWs? You mean like MW4 where poptarts with their Gauss/ERPPC/ERLLasers made the game stale as ****? Or you mean MW3 where Gausszilla Annihilators were two shotting every opposition?

LRMs do need rework. Longer CD, higher damage, lower impulse for example. But the indirect fire should only be touched if the ECM is reworked.

umm... did you not read what I said, or you just seeing what you want & arguing for the fun of it.

I didn't say previous games... I said older games... slight difference which you chose to ignore.

I never played the Previous games, MW3 Or MW4... However... I did play the OLDER games... such as the original mechwarrior 1 & 2 and MW II Mercenaries, as well as MechCommander (which isn't relevant since it's a different game style).

In the OLDER games. You didn't have missile spam or Poptarts. You had laser/auto-cannons for the most part and had to make use of the buildings (lol.. well they were gray bricks back then) and cover and basically a brawl didn't last 5 seconds.

[Mainhunter]

Slow down the tracking of targets.

[Noesis]

LRMs are fine. Needs to remain a viable weapon system as an "option".

For spam control could consider something like 80% ammo amount per ton at a relatively reduced c-bill cost as a result.

[Macksheen]

While I wouldn't be against a reduction in screenshake, no to the rest.

They are not bad at all. I rarely die to LRMs. Rarely. When I do, it's because either I did something stupid or I ran into a coordinated team or really skilled guy who just plain beat me. And again, it's rare. Maybe less-skilled LRMers against less-skilled targets it can seem like they are auto-win, but it just isn't the case.

I do run LRMs from time to time, and enjoy them - but almost never in the group queue.