35 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

I'm not going to say it's a particularly great idea but what if part of the balancing in (some?) clan weapons is that they only had 1.5x max range instead of 2x max range? They already have higher optimal range than their Inner Sphere counterparts, perhaps in exchange for less max range some other values could be buffed a bit (or perhaps left alone instead of being nerfed) like less heat or more of an optimal range increase or more frontloaded damage or something. This would also further serve to create more of a distinct theme between the IS and clan tech trees, which I do think is cool, but only if the changes result in the game being more balanced and not less and such an idea is definitely debatable whether or not it would make things more balanced

For example, in light of the recent C-ERLL nerfs, perhaps the nerfs could be (partially?) reverted if it only had 1,335m max range (which is still quite far) instead of 1,780m max range, and I know some people (including myself somewhat) have brought up the very respectable 450m range that the C-ERML brings for only 1 ton, perhaps it would be more in line if it only had a 675m max range instead of a 900m max range.

It's probably not a great idea; I could elaborate a little further on why it might be a good idea but I'd like to see some discussion first before trying to go more in-depth about it.

Edited by Pjwned, 09 August 2014 - 11:48 PM.

[Haxburch]

I dont want more nerfs to CLANS , because from Lore CLANS are much better and deserve this . You can play Hawken or some other robot crap np but accept the BT lore. I dont say 100% but it has to be Battletech at last !  Clans are a Core to this Universe.
IF you use teamplay and tactics you can beat the clan mech but you should not beat him in a 1vs1 shootout.IF we go IS vs Clans , there should be 12 vs 10 or   16 vs 10 if needed but dont weaken clan tech , respect the lore.

Edited by Haxburch, 10 August 2014 - 12:12 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

What if all weapons did the same damage and had the same range.

That'd be cool.

What if nobody had to use tactics at all and could just stand out in the open and shoot at each other...stupidly...until one player spammed the fire button faster than the other player...

That would be awesome.

It would be like my favorite board game ever; Hungry Hungry Hippos.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

No.

Keep going and we will end up with Clan weapons that are exactly the same as IS ones. Thus sucking life and colour out of the game.

[Monkey Lover]

I wish I had IS weapons on my clan mech. Clan weapons are junk other than the med laser.

[CheeseThief]

I'd honestly rather they test 12vs10 and see how that goes.

I'd rather have a loreful numbers advantage than have the clans loreful tech advantage taken away.


Asymmetrical balance is my buzz word of preference.

[Pjwned]

Haxburch, on 10 August 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

I dont want more nerfs to CLANS , because from Lore CLANS are much better and deserve this . You can play Hawken or some other robot crap np but accept the BT lore. I dont say 100% but it has to be Battletech at last ! Clans are a Core to this Universe.
IF you use teamplay and tactics you can beat the clan mech but you should not beat him in a 1vs1 shootout.IF we go IS vs Clans , there should be 12 vs 10 or 16 vs 10 if needed but dont weaken clan tech , respect the lore.

Wouldn't necessarily be a net loss if optimal range and other values were boosted a bit to compensate.

Bhael Fire, on 10 August 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

What if all weapons did the same damage and had the same range.

That'd be cool.

What if nobody had to use tactics at all and could just stand out in the open and shoot at each other...stupidly...until one player spammed the fire button faster than the other player...

That would be awesome.

It would be like my favorite board game ever; Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Thanks for not contributing anything worthwhile, you can ignore the thread you know.

Monkey Lover, on 10 August 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

I wish I had IS weapons on my clan mech. Clan weapons are junk other than the med laser.

Assuming you're mostly referring to the less frontloaded nature of clan weapons (because uh, that's pretty much their only downside when you just look at the weapons) that could be adjusted if the max range was also adjusted.

Edited by Pjwned, 10 August 2014 - 01:07 AM.

[Jeb]

the problem with 12 vs 10 is that means clan mechs WILL be better...

Matches are balanced right now due to clan mechs being on both teams and look at all the screaming about Timberwolves which people are saying are overpowered... do you really think people would accept the Timberwolf just because they get 2 more players on their team?
I doubt it...


And no, we don't want all weapons the same... but give me a break, right now the Clan Laser ranges give them a huge advantage that the IS has no counter to besides a Gauss, or ER PPC...

I think they should put the C-ERLL back to how it was, but lower all clan lasers by a bit so clans can't sit out of range in safty and then do their clan vs IS tests again...

[El Bandito]

People who treat "equal" as carbon copy, should not contribute to this thread. Weapons can be equal without being exactly the same. Many here have no imagination.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Pjwned, on 10 August 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Assuming you're mostly referring to the less frontloaded nature of clan weapons (because uh, that's pretty much their only downside when you just look at the weapons) that could be adjusted if the max range was also adjusted.

Mostly lrm and ac. suck with strams, burst. The only thing maybe better depending on how you look at it is laser for the clans.

ppc,gauss, srm and streaks are the same weapon.

If you gave me the option to put only IS weapons on my clan mech I would do it in a second.
If you nerf lasers more clans will have nothing but better xl engines.

[

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 August 2014 - 01:17 AM.

[Jeb]

Clan lasers could have their max ranges lowered, but still do their max dmg out further... that way they still have an advantage at range, but the IS could at least hit back...

Right now a clan mech can sit outside IS mech weapons range for the most part.

Clan ERLL has a max range of 1,780
The only weapon that IS have that will reach that far is the Gauss. Even the IS ER PPC only reaches 1,620.

Edited by Jeb, 10 August 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[John1352]

@Monkey Lover: Clans wouldn't happen to have ferro fibrous armor and endo steel with half the slots would they? They definitely don't get heatsinks which are smaller. Half weight SRMs with no drawbacks, hah, only in your imagination.

[Pjwned]

Jeb, on 10 August 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

Clan lasers could have their max ranges lowered, but still do their max dmg out further... that way they still have an advantage at range, but the IS could at least hit back...

Right now a clan mech can sit outside IS mech weapons range for the most part.

Clan ERLL has a max range of 1,780
The only weapon that IS have that will reach that far is the Gauss. Even the IS ER PPC only reaches 1,620.

So...are you suggesting that the optimal range be lowered but the max range be increased? That's pretty much the opposite of what I was going for if that's what you mean, I wasn't exactly fond of 3x max range on autocannons and some of the clan weapons remind me a little bit of that (although not as bad) so I was thinking maybe the long range game for clans could be reigned in a little bit in exchange for some possible buffs or (on the other hand) in lieu of not nerfing them in some other ways if needed, since I know clan balance is somewhat of a hot topic now.

Monkey Lover, on 10 August 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

Mostly lrm and ac. suck with strams, burst. The only thing maybe better depending on how you look at it is laser for the clans.

ppc,gauss, srm and streaks are the same weapon.

If you gave me the option to put only IS weapons on my clan mech I would do it in a second.
If you nerf lasers more clans will have nothing but better xl engines.

[

It seems like you're not considering the significant tonnage & crit slot advantage on many of those weapons you mentioned.

Edited by Pjwned, 10 August 2014 - 02:09 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

John1352, on 10 August 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

@Monkey Lover: Clans wouldn't happen to have ferro fibrous armor and endo steel with half the slots would they? They definitely don't get heatsinks which are smaller. Half weight SRMs with no drawbacks, hah, only in your imagination.

Depends on the mech. I don't on my summoner and I can't add it. They don't have all have it. I really wish some time I could remove them. I wish I could remove my jj. I wish I could change the engine. I wish I had IS weapon.

Only thing IS players want is to make Clan stuff worse they're happy with what they have.

[Charles Seneca]

Doubling the range of certain weapons in the game was a stupid idea in the first place. Why? It unbalanced the game.
How? PGI can figure that out for themselves. It isn't exactly complicated.

[Khobai]

12v10 wont fix anything. It just means 2 less clan lights. But theyll still have 3 daishis and 3 madcats. And it will still be unbalanced.

you cant enforce 3/3/3/3 with 10 mechs either.

a better solution would be to have tonnage matching and make clan mechs count as being 10 tons heavier for purposes of matchmaking. it has the same effect of shorting them 2 mechs (120 tons).

Tonnage matching would also be more fair because a locust would no longer count as being equal to a jenner.

How matchmaker has existed this far without matching tonnages is beyond me, but its no wonder it doesnt work at all.

Edited by Khobai, 10 August 2014 - 02:25 AM.

[CheeseThief]

Quote

Only thing IS players want is to make Clan stuff worse they're happy with what they have.

I dunno, I'd pinch those cERML's, cSRM's, cNARC, cBAP, cDHS and cAMS ammo bins in a heart beat.

Edited by CheeseThief, 10 August 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[Haxburch]

Khobai, on 10 August 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

12v10 wont fix anything. It just means 2 less clan lights. But theyll still have 3 daishis and 3 madcats. And it will still be unbalanced.

you cant enforce 3/3/3/3 with 10 mechs either.

a better solution would be to have tonnage matching and make clan mechs count as being 10 tons heavier for purposes of matchmaking. it has the same effect of shorting them 2 mechs (120 tons).

Tonnage matching would also be more fair because a locust would no longer count as being equal to a jenner.

How matchmaker has existed this far without matching tonnages is beyond me, but its no wonder it doesnt work at all.

No , there could and should be a drop rule for Clans to. 1Clan star = 1 ligth 2 med 1 Hvy 1 Assault

[Khobai]

Quote

No , there could and should be a drop rule for Clans to. 1Clan star = 1 ligth 2 med 1 Hvy 1 Assault

wouldnt work because of the absurdly long queue times

theres so many madcats and direwolves out there

[Tamas]

Double the heat, increase time to fire, reduce range. Sounds balanced.