65 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 10 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Vindicators are Liao mechs. That's all I need to know about them to figure out just how terrible they'll be.

Actually it was one of the Liao Mechs I respected even in 3025!

[Foxwalker]

Vindicator? Looking at it on Sarna.net, I can't see why anyone would get excited about it. Unless PGI does something really interesting with their hard point design, it seems kinda limited. It should have the same speed cap as the Blackjack, so it is not fast. Can anyone tell me why they think this thing is any good? I am willing to be convinced. Now the Phoenix Hawk would be interesting, with a base engine of 270 (most likely topping out at between 130-140 kph), Jump Jets and one variant with ECM. That Mech could have enough advantages to be competitive with current Clan at that class.

[CycKath]

I fully expect the Vindicator will be the first mech with the positive value External Heat Transfer quirk to represent the additional PPC water intact spoken of in its TRO3025 fluff.

[Keeshu]

Minimum hardpoints:
1R:
1 Missle (LRM 5 [LT]), 3 Energy (PPC [RA], Medium Laser [HD], Small Laser [LA]). 4 Jumpjets
1SIC:
1 Missile (LRM 10 [LT]), 3 Energy (Large Laser [RA], Medium Laser [HD], Small Laser [LA]) 4 Jumpjets
1AA (aka Avenging Angel):
1 Missile (LRM 5 [LT]), 2 Energy (PPC [RA], Small Laser [LA]). 5 Jumpjets (also has the same 10 ton engine as Blackjack 1X)
1X:
1 Missile (LRM 5 [LT]), 2 Energy (PPC [RA], Medium Laser [HD]), 2 Ballistics (Machineg Guns [LA]) 4 Jumpjets

Variants after that are not in our timeline.
The 1AA and 1X have enough going on to make themselves different by default. 1R and 1SIC will probably depend on what hardpoints we get (assuming the 1SIC even comes in the game).




When it comes to the Vindicator's design. It'll have a pretty high cockpit so that's always nice for looking over hills.
While the Vindicator's arms seem to be high (hard to tell with the Vindicator pictures on sarna because they are all of weird angles) so that could be a plus, but it won't be as good as the blackjack for hillhumping whatever the case is. However, the lower arms in comparison to the blackjack makes it's arms better shield arms. It looks like the torsos are going to be rather hard to hit because of how thin and short they are. However they have very large easy to hit legs like the blackjack (but just a tad thinner).



I am curious to see what niche the Vindicator will fill. I'm in the middle of mastering the blackjack now and it's very good at being able to take shots off at people without being seen, makes me feel like I have ECM on me or something whenever I use it, and you can retreat back before people notice you and are able to shoot back.

The Vindicator probably won't be the hill-humping champion that the blackjack is, or have the firepower of the bigger mediums, or the speed of the Cicada. These hardpoints make it seem like it'll be competing with the Trebuchet 5J + 7M, all the Griffins, Shadowhawk 2D + 2K + 5M and the Wolverine 6R and 7K. Note: All these variants only have 1 mech module slot.



In short:
Pros:
Head Laser. and Energy hard points in both arms (Griffin + Wolverine have all their energys in one arm)
Rather small torsos with potentially good shield arms.
Potentially semi-high arms
Potential for an extra Mech Module Slot
Potential for better quirks

Badass sunglasses

Cons:
Huge legs
Potential to be a slow and squishy medium like the Blackjack
Being a 45 tonner, lacks the weapons and armor of the 50 and 55 ton mediums.

Edited by Keeshu, 10 August 2014 - 10:38 PM.

[Archon]

After what was just done to PPCs, I'm dubious.

[Ed Trend]

With all the respect mates , IS realy needs another humanoid mech , with all the disadvandages that humanoid mechs already have?...big , tall broad , easy targets , lightly armed , with weapons at the arms or lower in the torso which means they need to be totaly exposed to fire at enemy ?....cuz thats the biggest of the issues that IS mechs currently have , and imho thats the reason why IS stomped in the last 2 IS vs Clans that PGI run . You expose yourself to shoot at a target , and the target , especialy if its a clan mech , respond back with more fire power than yours which , if not core you instantly , its renders you useless for the rest of the match...
I am a PUG player , and i ve noticed that in PUGland , the IS mechs which they can hold their own against Clan pilot are very specific . Ravens , Cicadas , Cats K2 , Miserys , Jesters and some heavy laser Stalkers . And there is a reason for that . Those Mechs have their weapons realy high up in their hands or torso , allowing em to play "hull down" ambush tactics.
So , again imho , if we ever hope to stand toe-to-toe with the claners , we need more of these mechs .Mechs like Bushwacker , Champion , Marauder , or even Firefly's .
I dont think we need more "Atlas cousin" mech's , we already have enough of those in every mech class and , at least in PUGland , they dont do very well so far.....

ty for your attention

[627]

Keeshu, on 10 August 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Edited by 627, 11 August 2014 - 12:16 AM.

[Foxwalker]

627, on 11 August 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

I see the resemblance! Most likely it will be as effective as Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet!

The Vindy should get it's own death Warhorn!

As you die it will blare out "When will then be now?" followed by "Soon...."

Edited by Foxwalker, 11 August 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I would've preferred the Assassin, to be honest. A fast jumping 40-tonner sounds like good times. A slow jumping 45-tonner sounds like a Blackjack, but without the high-mounted ballistics.

[Mechteric]

Hopefully they'll pull back the jump jet nerfs (and hopefully find better ways to nerf jump snipers without affecting mobility or brawlers) in some fashion when its released, otherwise whats the point.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 August 2014 - 06:56 AM.

[xe N on]

Another useless 45 ton. So what?

[EvilCow]

The current pathetic state of PPCs is not going to help them.

[xeromynd]

Hey guys I might just be really lazy, or blind, but is there concept art yet??

[Dawnstealer]

You'll have loyalists that will gravitate towards it. People still use the Quickdraw, despite the fact it's roughly 20x the size of an Atlas (slight exaggeration, but still...). Us Steiners have had a blast in Commandos despite the fact they carry less weapons and don't have the jump jets of Spiders, Jenners, Firestarters, etc.

I guess my point is that certainly Liao players (if any are left) will gravitate towards it, as will players who have sentimental reasons for doing so. They'll find builds that will work and it will find its niche, even if it's not the meta-mech of the future, which is fine by me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 10 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Vindicators are Liao mechs. That's all I need to know about them to figure out just how terrible they'll be.

So are Cataphracts (and Ravens). Seems kinda silly to discount them.

xeromynd, on 11 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Hey guys I might just be really lazy, or blind, but is there concept art yet??

not that I have seen.

[EyeOne]

xeromynd, on 11 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Hey guys I might just be really lazy, or blind, but is there concept art yet??

Lately they've been releasing the concept about 3 months after the mechs come out. Which is sad. I miss Concept Art Wednesdays.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

It is going to be good. That is all.

[Carrioncrows]

EyeOne, on 11 August 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Lately they've been releasing the concept about 3 months after the mechs come out. Which is sad. I miss Concept Art Wednesdays.

Right? our first sneak peek these days is when the hero mech hits the mechlab.

[Viges]

Dawnstealer, on 11 August 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

You'll have loyalists that will gravitate towards it. People still use the Quickdraw, despite the fact it's roughly 20x the size of an Atlas (slight exaggeration, but still...). Us Steiners have had a blast in Commandos despite the fact they carry less weapons and don't have the jump jets of Spiders, Jenners, Firestarters, etc.

I guess my point is that certainly Liao players (if any are left) will gravitate towards it, as will players who have sentimental reasons for doing so. They'll find builds that will work and it will find its niche, even if it's not the meta-mech of the future, which is fine by me.

When (I mean if ever ofc) cw arrives maybe they can hard limit the use of mechs to certain factions, then they will be forced to balance them better. Maybe.

[Spheroid]

Wouldn't the default BJ-1X and BJ-3 destroy the Vindicator in stock matches?