30 replies to this topic

[OznerpaG]

so i'v been playing this game for a year and a quarter now - 4000 games - and there's 1 thing that brings me pure dread when the task comes up:

leveling a new mech.

i'm to the point that when i pilot any mech i can get it to maneuver it whichever i want and be relativity successful with it (at minimum killing more than getting killed), but when i'm leveling a mech - even if it encompasses all my strengths and few of my weaknesses - i feel like i piloting a big barn door in a hurricane and i have a hard time accomplishing or contributing anything in a match until the mech is finally elited

which is fine, but i already know what the end result of leveling a mech is going to be so i grind it out until i finally get a pilot-able mech. what i feel sorry for is the new player - i can see how easy it would be for anyone who is less than passionate about the Battletech Universe to give the game a try, then drop it since piloting a mech feels like you'r wrestling a Polar Bear and you'r getting smoked every game. i think there needs to be an easier gateway for new players to feel good about playing the game so they stick around, even if they don't know anything about Battletech

i have 2 suggestions - first:

all trial mechs should be already completely leveled - it's mostly new players who use them, and they should have an opportunity to pilot a mech that maneuvers EXACTLY like everyone else's leveled mech so they can have a better chance of enjoying the game and staying longer. if all the mechs around you are dancing like ballerinas and you feel like you'r driving a fully loaded 18 wheeler, how is that supposed to make you want to keep playing or feel that you'r good enough to play with the big boys? i think this will go a long way to making new players feel more comfortable, AND if any vets play the trials they'l have a better understanding how the mech feels and perhaps maybe even purchase one instead of grinding out a pig for a game or 2 and getting a bad impression


second:

all new players should get a free mech that come with their account - hey guess what, there's a standard IS training mech that the academies have to train new pilots, and it's the 50t Chameleon

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Chameleon

all players would get a single Chameleon, there would be only a single available chassis (not 3), and instead of leveling up using XP the new player would have to go through a tutorial which would explain the basics of MWO, by the end of which the Chameleon would be elited. then the player could master it normally using XP to get the extra module slot


keeping customers is always a challenge, but getting them in the first place is always more important - give noobs a pat on the back when they stick their nose in, not a push into the swamp!

EDIT: thanks for the heads up Levi

Edited by JagdFlanker, 12 August 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

FYI your poll does not match your post. The way the post is worded it's perfectly viable to vote Yes and disagree with both of your suggestions.

[The Massive]

I really like the idea of a free elited mech after a training tutorial.

As a side note though I actually really like grinding a rubbish mech. I even limit myself where if I don't plan on keeping the mech i'm not allowed to spend a single c-bill on it. I find it's quite a skill builder. I was surprised at what I could achieve with 4 med las 2 lrm 5's on an otherwise stock quickdraw.

I mean not every mech pilot has the luxury of upgrading their mech. Sometimes, in fact probably most times, the mech would be run 'stock' ( you know, like, in real life ).

[Myke Pantera]

Hi JagdFlanker, i think that what you are saying in your post makes all the sense in the world, and i appreciate where you're going.

I personally haven't had any problems with leveling new mechs so far. In fact, i nearly always jump to the next chassis after i've mastered the last one, and i still consider myself useful in PUGs. I play mostly mastered mechs in the group-queue though.

Edited by Myke Pantera, 17 August 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Alright Myke "One of the best metal bands ever", i made the poll more formal for easier reading lol

leveling mechs isn't a problem per se - it's more of an extra challenge which is fine for those already sucked into the game - but the battlefield is a cold harsh mistress when you don't know Battletech so well, you'r trying to get used to all these different mechs and what they can do, the different weapons, and the non-Call Of Duty way of movement which can take a while to master.

[Myke Pantera]

JagdFlanker, on 12 August 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Alright Myke "One of the best metal bands ever", i made the poll more formal for easier reading lol

...

Thx

Trials should be fully elited, i agree on that idea! They are mostly piloted by new players or veterans who want to know how the chassis feels. In both cases having them elited would help. You can't change the weapons and you can't use modules, so you're still at a disadvantage, but not as stark as now.

Also a free elited first mech after training is an awesome idea!

Rock On!

[Hoffenstein]

This is quite possibly the best suggestion I've heard regarding giving new players an edge. Great choice on the beginner Mech too, it's fast enough that it won't be a burden to its allies and has enough punch to hurt a careless veteran too!

[Timuroslav]

I disagree on the elited part. I also disagree with the Free mech part.
So a newbie basically, has the choice of 8 Elited mechs versus buying them. Why would you ever buy a mech again? You get everything for free. It also destroys the essence of progression. I do agree and voted Yes on the game should be neophyte friendly, but this is not the way. Scripted Training missions and Cadet bonus are the way to go. Currently, the tutorial is informative, but not fun. It also fails to teach the weapon systems.
Saying "HERE's FREE STUFF SANDBOX MODE GO! EXPLORE!"
Does not help a neophyte learn Weapon groupings, targeting, weapon systems.
Giving new players all the mechs, and Elited, makes store bought mechs feel like garbage. Also just because you have all the mechs it does not mean you understand their roles or purpose. All mechs in the game have weapons, but not all mechs are Front-line Fighters.
Yes, it makes them feel empowered, but after feeling empowered for half an hour or so, you begin to feel lost and then confused, and than after confused, feel incompetent.

Original Posters' idea is amiable, but extremely misguided on the solution.

Edited by Timuroslav, 11 September 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[zje]

As a new player, I would say that the 25 game C-Bill bonus was more than adequate to let me get my feet wet. Jumping straight into the game I was disappointed to find that I couldn't customize trial mechs, but afterwards I was glad that it forced me to gain piloting experience before blowing c-bills on bad decisions. As-is, the trial mechs are not so bad that you can't contribute at least a little to the team and the variety helps new players me test different styles. I would agree that a more involved tutorial would be nice, but without a sufficiently decent AI (which would take a massive effort if I understand correctly), it would only be incrementally better than what exists currently. One forgiving aspect of this game is that nearly everything is a tank, so it's not like other games where beginners just get shot in the head immediately with no chance. However, if a complete new player picks an Atlas right off the bat, they are using lots of precious BV for their team... hence I think allowing matches of completely the same class (e.g. assaults vs. assaults) would be nice for new players.

I do believe the experience could be easier, but I think the solution probably lies with a more involved tutorial and better matchmaking (always a challenge) rather than different equipment.

[Eddrick]

Why the Chameleon?

[MechWarrior319348]

I voted no, but because I am the only no, I feel I should provide an explanation.

First, it is impossible to avoid the problem of being unfair, those of us who have been playing for a while did not receive any such help.

Second, the way new players become acquainted with this game is to be pinned against other new players in the same situation (something that pgi needs to work on). You want to have the feel of a game where you build up your pilot and his inventory, against pilots doing the same. You wouldn't start..... Uh..... Mass effect at level 30.

Third, PGI simply won't do this because they want people to spend money to get an upper hand against other players.

[NextGame]

the crockett is a possible training mech as well, but chameleon fits the needed underplayed tonnage zone better.

Eddrick, on 28 October 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Why the Chameleon?

its a training mech in lore

[MrBlonde42]

Although I like some of these ideas, I voted "No" against the whole package of ideas. If a trial mech is "leveled" up, then why bother paying for that model if you get it and the efficiencies are nil. The incentive of a trial mech is to try, then buy, and lastly improve.

A better training simulation/tutorial would help a lot. The chameleon is a nice lore touch, but the current level system needs to be retained. With PGI's made up Enforcer variant, there could be 3 Chameleons to buy and level, or it could be a training grounds/tutorial only mech.

[huskinater]

I must say I agree with the idea of the Chameleon, but I have to disagree with one thing. Personally, I don't think it should be the only variant. Having multiple variants gives an incentive to keep learning the role of the mech, and it helps to direct new players so they don't drop a bunch of cbills on an Assault just to find out they need more variants to earn Elite. I started off buying the Raven 4X a long time ago and it felt awesome to be able to buy the 3L when it was the last step for me to Elite the set. Also, having multiple variants will allow players to experiment with customization early, as different chassis have different hardpoints. If the Chameleon has a stock variant each suited to either SRMs, Lasers, or Ballistics then new players will get to mess around with each of the games weapon types as they go about purchasing the next variants, all the while striving to unlock Elite. If a player would start out with an Elited mech that would just make the grind to get Elite on their next mech feel even worse, as they would have no reference to how awful a non-basic mech is. Also, I'm sure almost every player knows how good it feels to finally Elite a mech, and that is something that new players should get to appreciate early on instead of just letting it be handed out.

[MindWalk3r]

bunch of veteran negative nancy's responding to a positive idea about getting players in game. This game is unforgiving, combined with the fact that its a free to play with added incentives to buy buy buy, its even tougher. The cadet bonus is minimal considering higher prices of mechs. Tutorial is sorely lacking, thank god for sidestrafe videos. even the vets here would agree that a basic mech and an elite mech is night and day difference. Take it from a new player that enjoys mech games, any help would be welcome. Im still on the fence about this game, due to the arbitrary way devs allocate which mech can use this weapon or that engine. theyve made a card board box where only 6 mechs are used. Why? is it because those are the players favorite mechs. nahh, just so happens that the jager can drop bombs, when other mechs in the same weight class are left wanting. Go into any pub game, what do u see, stormcrow, jager, bj, jenner, cat. these mechs give players an edge arbitrarily due to dev choices on weapons and engine sizes. On top of that as a new player u drop all ur coin on a mech thats only working at 50% capacity against veteran players piloting one of their 50 elited mechs. i wouldnt be surprised if new players was in the negative. I agree with original poster that us new players need the help. I would take it a step further, first mech u buy is fully elited to make it responsive and therefore competitive (maybe limit it to 30-70 tons), expand tutorial with basic AI piloted mechs, and finally have a different que with small maps for people playing there first few hundred games (maybe 4v4 or 8v8), maybe more depending on k/d ratios. instead of throwing them into regular ques with clan mbrs deciding to pug it for the weekend scoring 1k+ damage to compete against. As a side note it wouldnt hurt to give some type of gxp boost or some way to open and buy modules, at least something for your first mech. Been playing about a month maybe and i have one mech and only recently opened a module, let alone 3 or 4. Considering your not only checking the game out, but whether your willing to drop money into game or not, from a marketing perspective it makes sense. Hopefully pgi or whomever is responsible will realize that mechwarrior has such a following of mature people willing to shell out money, that they dont really need 1001 micro transactions to make this the most profitable mech game ever developed. Even if they removed cash for paint, cash for arbitrary bays, cash for hanging toys that obstruct view of your next kill, they could easily make hundreds off of heros and mech packages from each and every current and new player introduced to the game.

Edited by MindWalk3r, 30 October 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[Telmasa]

My suggestion, while it's on a bit of a tangent:

Make single heat sinks more effective.



SO many "stock" mechs right now, thanks to ghost heat, can only fire 2-3 times, sometimes 4, before accumulating too much heat to do anything else - and single heat sinks can't bleed off that accumulated heat fast enough to make a difference.

Meaning, every "noob" has to instantly try to grasp one of the hardest things to do in MWO - properly manage your heat by being able to exit and enter engagements at will in order to cool down.

Aside from purely missile/ballistics builds, I can guarantee that any "experienced" player goes for the double heat sinks upgrade as soon as possible in any mech they intend to keep, despite the extravagant cost, because it's an extremely important necessity.


If single heat sinks were even just a *little* bit more effective and forgiving than they are right now, it would greatly lower the bar for newer players to get a hang of what's going on, instead of assuming that the mech they bought is crap, that the game is no fun any more, and giving up before they ever really started.




And, really, would anybody complain if new players got to choose between a free "starter" Locust, Cicada, or Dragon?

Edited by Telmasa, 30 October 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[Celtic Warrior]

I agree that new players should get some kind of help, getting your first mech leveled from scratch with no XP takes quite a while. I'm have no problem with either of your ideas because getting more people in the game and keeping them is just good for business. At the least PGI should allow trial mechs to be reconfigured because you will most likely change the mech in the future but its hard to get a feel for the mech in stock form at lvl 1. After you lvl a mech up and configure it how you like its a much different mech then when you first took it out.

If that makes sense!!

[MindWalk3r]

Trial mechs let u check out the game in the most basic sense. For a new player, it gives u no idea of what that mech will be like leveled up. and it also doesnt give u an idea of mechs in that specific class, since theres no unification of response time vs tonnage, its completely random. 2 mechs of the same tonnage will respond different in basic and elite, combine that with the fact that ur just getting a small glimpse into the mechs available. Plus lets face it, even with mech experience, this is a tough game to get into as far as first person shooters go. Theres a big learning curve, and many aspects of the game arent fast paced which is popular with younger people, so anything to help is good for the community and good for business. Theres many ways this can be done, ideally it would be nice to trial all mechs in elite form for around 10 fights a piece. you'd be doing 2 things at once, giving a more true glimpse into game potential and since a new player will be locked into first mech for a while, a better chance of getting a mech they can call their own and customize to their hearts content. Thats something no other FPS has which PGI should take advantage of, customization, and from a marketing point of view the more a player can customize, the more they become invested in the game and get friends to join them. Making paint cost money when ur checking game out is backwards, you want to allow more customization not less. Anyway, off topic im sure, just trying to share the point of view of a new player.

[SnaFubar1971]

I think that after a new player completes all of the Cadet challeges, I think it's 25 with the current bonuses, they are given 1 CLN-7W from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Chameleon. It will take up 1 of the given 4 mech bays but gives them a 50 ton mech with what looks like ok stats to work with. If the developers only want to produce the 1 Chameleon they can leave the Elite and Master levels unlocked, so all can be unlocked without needing to have 3 of them. Since this would only be given upon completion of "Cadet Training" no need to have others. This would leave the new player with 3 bays to Elite/Master any other chasis. You could even make it earnable by veterans with maybe the equivalent of a refresher course, maybe 15 or 20 missions completing various elements. For instance base assist with capture plus kill at least 1 enemy and an assist, or spot at least 10 different Enemies, help capture 3 resource points plus 1 kill and assist. Essentialy doing different roles, the 1 Kill plus Assist just makes it a little more dificult so the mech feels like you worked for it, the Veteran gets a Mech bay with the Chameleon, unlike the new player so Vets get a little reward. I think that would be fun for all, plus new stuff, who doesn't like new stuff?

[Black Ivan]

For the bis STEAM release PGI has to do something to keep the influx of new players in the game and stop them from leaving soon. This can be done with a free Mech and less a grind with better rewards