92 replies to this topic

[Warma]

Estrous, on 14 August 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

I'd like to note, that I know a good amount of people on the opposing side in this image. Kossi, nakkimo, ugrakarma, asavisio and musketti are part of the finnish Aseveljet clan, and some of them play in the very competitive White Death Mercenary Company unit, which is currently participating in the Run Hot or Die league.

These guys train organized group drops three nights a week and play with their friends the rest of the nights. They drop against other 12-mans who do the same practically all the time. They coordinate extensively with each other, know who to shoot, where to shoot and when to fight. Of course they aren't the very best people to play the game, but from the perspective of a beginner, the distinction between them and the best is largely irrelevant.

I have no idea why a matchmaker has put you against them, but I wouldn't blame you for losing. Most likely cause is a slow evening and a lack of opponents. If you wait long enough, the matchmaker won't care about ELO.

[Warma]

Also, I have to add that "stomps" are quite common in this game, as because of the high TTK, battles evolve differently than in FPS's. As damaged mechs are able to withdraw and reposition, with fresh ones taking their place, it is very common that the winning team can avoid losses by tanking damage evenly between their members. Many stomps are much closer than they seem from the scoreboard.

To elaborate further, when we 12-drop, the definition of a close match isn't really one that ends 10-12 or 11-12, as a match that close is a true rarity. Even matches which go 5-12 or 4-12 can be nail-bitingly close, depending on the circumstances.

Actually just last night we had 7-12 losses where pretty much every guy in both teams had done 300+ damage. These numbers mean, that the avalanche of deaths triggers late into the engagement and with all of the surviving mechs being extremely damaged. It is not uncommon for me to end my matches in the 15-25% range of health left, which, by all practical standards, means that I'm already dead.

[Redshift2k5]

If I had to play against Edmeister, JagerXIII, and Sean Lang, I'd probably get wiped too!

I don't know what kind of team you're rolling with, but if you doing something like a 2-man in primetime, you're asking for trouble. A new or less experienced player is better off in either 1) solo queue or 2) a larger group where they can listen/follow orders and contribute instead of being hung out to dry.

Being in a 2-3 man group, especially if you don't have more experienced players to carry you, is making yourself a little fish in a big pond.

Warma, on 15 August 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

Also, I have to add that "stomps" are quite common in this game, as because of the high TTK, battles evolve differently than in FPS's. As damaged mechs are able to withdraw and reposition, with fresh ones taking their place, it is very common that the winning team can avoid losses by tanking damage evenly between their members. Many stomps are much closer than they seem from the scoreboard.

To elaborate further, when we 12-drop, the definition of a close match isn't really one that ends 10-12 or 11-12, as a match that close is a true rarity. Even matches which go 5-12 or 4-12 can be nail-bitingly close, depending on the circumstances.

Actually just last night we had 7-12 losses where pretty much every guy in both teams had done 300+ damage. These numbers mean, that the avalanche of deaths triggers late into the engagement and with all of the surviving mechs being extremely damaged. It is not uncommon for me to end my matches in the 15-25% range of health left, which, by all practical standards, means that I'm already dead.

This too, the actuall kill count is not the entire equation; you could have a long period of hesitant, safe play where both teams take/recieve equal damage, followed by a sudden flank which can easily result in a complete wipe if well executed. If many mechs were damaged but not killed during the pre-flank phase, it could still be a fair fight even if the end result is a lopsided kill count. (ie the match was evenly matches even if the score was not)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 15 August 2014 - 04:38 AM.

[Bigbacon]

i always have a feeling that each day, the game decides if you will be on a winning team most of the time or a losing team who will get stomped most of the time.

Cookiemonter669, on 14 August 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

My record is 29 losses in row,almost all stomps,motivation breaking for sure,but it happens sometimes.
There is a limit how much one mech can carry a team.

this is the kind of day you walk away and take a few days off.

[NuclearPanda]

Estrous, on 14 August 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

*snip*

I logged in specifically to say hello and welcome to MWO to you. Feel free to add me within game as a friend, you can see my user name listed here.

I would be more than happy to run some matches with you and answer questions as well as help with your builds and playstyles in order to avoid these roflstomps that you're experiencing.

Practice makes perfect... let people help you and team up with friends.

[Josef Koba]

I drop almost exclusively solo anymore now that my drop partner has a job that keeps him busy. I find that the vast majority of my drops end with one team rolling the other. Very few matches are close. In an average night consisting of 15-20 drops (depending on wait time) I'd say that only three or four matches end with both sides having lost the majority of their pilots. Usually the score is 12-3 or worse, and it's very rare for me to see a comeback by the team that lost the first mech. I would expect such things to be the norm in the group queue, and a few months ago the solo queue had lots of close matches. I don't know if this is reflective of tweaks to the matchmaker or what. Sometimes I'm the beneficiary of these rolls, other times I'm not. I don't really have a problem with it, but rolls aren't as satisfying for me on either side. When 1/3 of my team dies before I even get into contact, it's pretty frustrating knowing that I'm probably going to die relatively easily. Conversely, when my team decimates half the team before I do much, it's also frustrating (especially when it's my first win of the day and I barely see any action).

In the rare event that my comrade and I drop together, we are routinely on the receiving end of beat downs, I assume because we're a two man drop that often is grouped with multiple teams while having a higher chance of facing larger, more coordinated teams.

I've also noticed odd compositions of teams lately too. Even with 3/3/3/3, I'm seeing more matches that feature things like four Direwolves and a couple other assaults. I understand that the matchmaker expands or relaxes the requirements for the sake of being able to drop you into a match, so no issues there. Just a little strange to see my team or the enemy have so many assaults at one time.

As an aside, one team I dropped with last night had four Atlases. I remember a time when that would have meant good things, even if it was a little unfair. It's sort of interesting nowadays to have a sense of uncertainty even when you have four Atlases. I can't say I dislike it. Adds a little bit to the game in my opinion.

[NuclearPanda]

The thing is with rolls, is that it's basically a law of large numbers and a domino effect. If your team immediately begins to lose pilots it can be incredibly easy to become overwhelmed by the exponential effect of firepower from the other team. This chance only increases with the more pilots that are lost by one team or another.

[Fire and Salt]

It is true that 12-0 rolls are not always as bad as they seem.
6 of the other teams mech may be 1 shot away from death, but they can just go hide in the back.

The roll effect is partly caused by a no respawn game type, and partly caused by the extremely long time to kill in MWO, when compared to many other shooting type games.




Also - yes, you and your friend do need to play in the group queue if you want to play as a group.
If they let 2 mans into the solo queue, then those players would be the ones crying about unfair 2 man groups.
And if they let noob 2 mans only into the solo queue, they would get mad when they got bumped up out of the noob category.

Some players will have ratios below 1:1. The only solution to that, is to not play a PvP game.

[Josef Koba]

Fire and Salt, on 15 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Also - yes, you and your friend do need to play in the group queue if you want to play as a group.
If they let 2 mans into the solo queue, then those players would be the ones crying about unfair 2 man groups.
And if they let noob 2 mans only into the solo queue, they would get mad when they got bumped up out of the noob category.

Some players will have ratios below 1:1. The only solution to that, is to not play a PvP game.

Not sure who you were replying to, but I'm not suggesting that two mans be placed in the solo queue. There was no complaint on my part, merely general observations from my own limited perspective. It's simply reflective of the fact that we run a higher risk of being placed on fragmented teams while facing larger teams with comms. I suppose that there's so much complaining on these forums that even casual observations that are on topic are assumed to be whining.

[JC Daxion]

Redshift2k5, on 15 August 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Being in a 2-3 man group, especially if you don't have more experienced players to carry you, is making yourself a little fish in a big pond.

They really need to do something about small lower ELO groups, perhaps tossing them into the solo cue with slightly better soloers.. as it is, a few people that are no good that want to team up have an aweful time. Personally id rather see the old 3-4 man drops, come back. then add the larger group Cue's


Granted i feel this is still in beta, but there is a lot to be said about this.. I was just getting into group matching, but getting rolled constantly all night long, (even in large group drops of 8-10) I just have gone back to pugs. Sure not every match is awesome, but more often than not they are close, Or at least close for most of the match till someone pulls away through better strat, or just better/smarter play..

A close match for the first 6-10 mins is much better than rolled in 4 anyway you look at it..


Not to mention, Just add Freaking macros so we can have some basic orders through a key stroke.. come on it is 2014.. even if it is simple as... Form up at Location X, mech sited at X, Muliple mechs flanking X blah blah blah....something you can easily do with a couple key strokes.. they could even add a hot bar at the top of the screen, or you could pull up the battle map, click on a location example C4, then click your macro.. the game could say,, 3 mechs sited in C4 flash across the top of the screen vrs in chat where people miss often. Something like the Incoming missile warning.


and yes.. there needs to be something for 2-3 man teams, out side of saying Play with 12 and get rolled.. that is just total crap.. Not everyone wants to be a pro.. many just want to hang out and have a good time..

If your 12 mans don't have enough people to play against equal players that night, without waiting 20 mins,, why shouldn't they have to break up into smaller groups and fight each other for a while? Basically what the great 12 man groups are saying.. suck it up and loose so i can have someone to kill all night.

I see large 8-10 man groups of complete newbies going up against pros in the few times i have done it.. Screw that... a 4 min match is not fun at all.. sorry guys...

and just for the record, I never complained once about being stuck in a solo cue with 4 man groups.. It was even better when you beat um the next round cause you knew...


Adding color flags to people grouped would also be nice, then you know which are groups, and which aren't, that could be another possible alternative to small groups in solo cue

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 August 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Estrous]

Nevermind guys, I am trying solo and getting rolled by randoms. Just went through 3 games where the other team got two perfect wins and one almost perfect via losing one mech.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nick Makiaveli, on 14 August 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

I think you misunderstood. Your RATING only changes when you surprise the MM. You could win 100 games in a row and not have your Elo change a point.

Your pre-designated Elo is only for when you come out of your first 25 matches, then it is supposed to rise or fall. The premise is that if you are not as good as your rating, you will let your team down, and you will lose matches you should have won. The reverse is true.

It's not meant for quick movement, it's meant to be slow so that statistical spikes are smoothed over. Yes it's brutal in the beginning, but mostly just for those who have to win to have fun.

yeah, exactly....and so after your first 25 games, if you managed to lose alot and die, your Elo is low, and therefore it pretty much stays low cuz the game keeps putting the player in games with other low ass elo rating players....its a never ending circle that is next to impossible to get out of. Atleast that explains why I was always on the losing team....

[Sandslice]

Estrous, on 15 August 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Nevermind guys, I am trying solo and getting rolled by randoms. Just went through 3 games where the other team got two perfect wins and one almost perfect via losing one mech.

They happen. Just roll with them and keep trying.
Another thing that I've found to be helpful for my outlook toward the game: set a goal other than "win" or "avoid having the other team win perfect."

Say, "my goal is to deal 200 damage." Not a lot, but a fine goal for a rookie. Then work towards it. If you're dying too soon, work out why you died, learn from it, and do better. The last part is HARD, lemme tell ya; but you'll get better in time.

Then, once you can do 200 consistently, "250 and a component break." Now you gotta be a little better to do the extra damage, plus be aware of chances to dismember an opponent.

Don't ignore teamwork, of course; but don't sweat the outcomes so much until you're comfortable *playing* the game.