30 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

All us Forumwarriors have seen the posts before.

"I died to X! X is OP!"

We've seen it applied to lasers, ppcs, AC's, the "meta," LRM's, Clan Mechs, Assault Mechs, Light mechs, ECM, oh gods, ECM...

And sometimes, they're right (Lurmpocalypse, the first, when the damage was 10X greater than it was supposed to be due to splash, for example).

That said, sometimes it's just hard to gauge! The example that comes to mind is a game we had last night.

The Kell Hounds dropped last night as an 8-man. We brought a mix of assault LRM boats, assault direct-fire and heavy split loadouts with LRM support and direct fire, and a pair of really badass light pilots in a Commando and a Kitfox.

We ran into a team on Alpine that had 4-5 ECM 'mechs. Normally, ECM is a helluva shut-down for a loadout like what we took. Ya know, that whole "completely negates unless you're using an active counter" thing.

But our two scouts worked their ASSES off. Dropping UAV's, Tagging Targets, playing squirrel and drawing people out of their ECM bubbles, constant calling of targets AND calling out when WE had been NARCEed for us.

We won the game pretty handily (final score was somewhere around 5-6 still standing). Not a roll, but a win (and the LRM mechs weren't top damage...they did their job, softening up the targets and herding them, but they weren't the ones swinging the haymakers and getting knockouts).

And I KNOW that some of our opponents were thinking "******* OP LRMs."

But we WORKED for that win, and it was difficult, and it was rewarding when we pulled it off. Putting together the right counters, with good teamwork and positioning isn't easy. We sweated to make it work in a situation where it normally wouldn't have.

So please, the next time you have an urge to come online and rant about how OP something is...please consider that it's not always just the mechanics...a lot of times there's serious effort going on behind the scenes.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 15 August 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Onmyoudo]

In the PuG queue that's a whole lot less likely, and realistically that's where people tend to die to LRM rain. Well done on working hard for your win, but most of the time it really is just poor players not covering themselves correctly.

[AlmightyAeng]

That kinda works with what I was saying.

Group environment, with lots of ECM, and we took missiles? Yeah, that's a hard-fought win

Edited by Ghost Badger, 15 August 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[Mechteric]

OP is OP

[0bsidion]

Your post just goes to show that teamwork is OP and needs to be nerfed. Players shouldn't be allowed to communicate during games or work together in any way.

But on a serious note, I think LRMs get picked on the most because they have a bigger psychological impact than other weapons. The big read "Incoming Missiles" warning, the cockpit shake, the fire and smoke in your face, it can be disorienting and intimidating, especially if you're new to the game. So we get a disproportionate reaction to one of the weakest weapons in the game. I regularly carry at least one LRM launcher, but most of my damage and kills come from ACs, lasers, or PPCs. And when I die, it's most often to those same weapons.

[Lootee]

Yes. Once after a hard fought brawl my mech had a dark red CT. A teammate bumped into me and blew me up.

Nerf my team plz.

Edited by Lootee, 15 August 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Onmyoudo, on 15 August 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

In the PuG queue that's a whole lot less likely, and realistically that's where people tend to die to LRM rain. Well done on working hard for your win, but most of the time it really is just poor players not covering themselves correctly.

Yep you are correct.

I was running my ECM Kit Fox the other night which I always play in the support role insuring I stick with the main group to keep the LRM rain off them. A enemy Jenner or something pops up on the radar in the distance and all of a sudden this Summoner goes, "Squirrel" and starts rushing off after the Jenner (who wasn't really even in effective weapons range). Seconds later he leaves my ECM cover and almost immediately starts taking concentrated LRM fire from at least 3-4 sources. Seconds after that, he explodes which is immediately followed by the inevitable, "LRMs are totally OPed...totally BS!!!"

Honestly, people really need to look at their own actions before making complaints. I know where I am concerned, about 90% of the time, I die because I have either misjudged the situation or have made a huge error, not because PPD or Poptarts or LRMs or any other supposely OPed mechanic.

[Mystere]

Ghost Badger, on 15 August 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

"I died to X! X is OP!"

At least 99.9999% of the whiny posts here is because of that. And 99.99% of the so-called "I only want balance" posts is also due to that.

Ghost Badger, on 15 August 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

So please, the next time you have an urge to come online and rant about how OP something is...please consider that it's not always just the mechanics...a lot of times there's serious effort going on behind the scenes.

But they died to [XXX]. So [XXX] is OP!
QQ! QQ!
Whine! Whine!
Rant! Rant!
I will rage quit if PGI does not do what I want!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Viktor Drake, on 15 August 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Yep you are correct.

I was running my ECM Kit Fox the other night which I always play in the support role insuring I stick with the main group to keep the LRM rain off them. A enemy Jenner or something pops up on the radar in the distance and all of a sudden this Summoner goes, "Squirrel" and starts rushing off after the Jenner (who wasn't really even in effective weapons range). Seconds later he leaves my ECM cover and almost immediately starts taking concentrated LRM fire from at least 3-4 sources. Seconds after that, he explodes which is immediately followed by the inevitable, "LRMs are totally OPed...totally BS!!!"

Honestly, people really need to look at their own actions before making complaints. I know where I am concerned, about 90% of the time, I die because I have either misjudged the situation or have made a huge error, not because PPD or Poptarts or LRMs or any other supposely OPed mechanic.

This is on target.

It doesn't mean we can't have conversations about mechanics and point out things which are out of whack (for instance, after the PGI tournament, it was obvious certain things were amiss).

But you shouldn't be doing that because you "died to it".

[Cion]

I thought the same thing last night.

"I died to x on y map, therefore nerf x"
No mention that x is ineffective on N maps, or asking for suggestions how to play better, counter weapon, tactics, anything.

MUST NERF PLZ!

Nerf this thread, it makes too much sense...

[Votanin FleshRender]

I had a game in my kint-18 with 5xlrm5 + Artemis were I was literally the only player on my team with LRMs and afterwards the other team was bitching about LRMs being OP and half our team being LRM boats.

One guy chain firing five Lrm5 and switching targets constantly for suppression fire can certainly make it SEEM like a lot of missiles.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Votanin FleshRender, on 15 August 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I had a game in my kint-18 with 5xlrm5 + Artemis were I was literally the only player on my team with LRMs and afterwards the other team was bitching about LRMs being OP and half our team being LRM boats.

One guy chain firing five Lrm5 and switching targets constantly for suppression fire can certainly make it SEEM like a lot of missiles.

And yet, 3 or 4 AMS on their team would have nullified you completely.

[WarHippy]

Ghost Badger, on 15 August 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

All us Forumwarriors have seen the posts before.

"I died to X! X is OP!"

We've seen it applied to lasers, ppcs, AC's, the "meta," LRM's, Clan Mechs, Assault Mechs, Light mechs, ECM, oh gods, ECM...

And sometimes, they're right (Lurmpocalypse, the first, when the damage was 10X greater than it was supposed to be due to splash, for example).

That said, sometimes it's just hard to gauge! The example that comes to mind is a game we had last night.

The Kell Hounds dropped last night as an 8-man. We brought a mix of assault LRM boats, assault direct-fire and heavy split loadouts with LRM support and direct fire, and a pair of really badass light pilots in a Commando and a Kitfox.

We ran into a team on Alpine that had 4-5 ECM 'mechs. Normally, ECM is a helluva shut-down for a loadout like what we took. Ya know, that whole "completely negates unless you're using an active counter" thing.

But our two scouts worked their ASSES off. Dropping UAV's, Tagging Targets, playing squirrel and drawing people out of their ECM bubbles, constant calling of targets AND calling out when WE had been NARCEed for us.

We won the game pretty handily (final score was somewhere around 5-6 still standing). Not a roll, but a win (and the LRM mechs weren't top damage...they did their job, softening up the targets and herding them, but they weren't the ones swinging the haymakers and getting knockouts).

And I KNOW that some of our opponents were thinking "******* OP LRMs."

But we WORKED for that win, and it was difficult, and it was rewarding when we pulled it off. Putting together the right counters, with good teamwork and positioning isn't easy. We sweated to make it work in a situation where it normally wouldn't have.

So please, the next time you have an urge to come online and rant about how OP something is...please consider that it's not always just the mechanics...a lot of times there's serious effort going on behind the scenes.

If it isn't because the mechs/weapons are OP then it clearly means the other person was cheating since that is the only other explanation as to why I lost. Your teamwork is nothing compared to my skill so what other lame explanation are you going to come up with to protect your OP stuff, and/or your cheating?

[Charons Little Helper]

Of note though - I doubt that those awesome game-shifting scouts earned much more than enough C-bills to pay for their UAVs.

(On second thought - as I private match did they earn anything? Nonetheless - my point about scounts being way under-rewarded for their value still stands.)

[Too Much Love]

Nerf LRM.

[WarHippy]

drunkblackstar, on 15 August 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Nerf LRM.

If you weren't drunk those LRMs wouldn't be an issue.

[Deathlike]

This is the cycle of whining.

The difference is that it only goes one way... repeated failure.

You know how you learn quickly at an early age to not touch fire?

Do you wonder why people keep repeating the same mistakes to being crushed by LRMs?

Darwin was right... at least he would never say LRMs are OP.

[His Holiness Pope Buster]

Un-nerfed ppcs and jump jets would be a good counter to LRMs. I would like to see more buffs to achieve game balance. Un-nerfed Highlanders and Victors would balance IS vs clans quite nicely.

Edited by Buster Highman, 15 August 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[Diablobo]

The LRM discussion here accounts for whether or not we should nerf LRMs, but what about the decision to nerf PPCs and Clan ER LL?

PPCs and Clan ER LL were not OP before, and they nerfed them because......?

Just because someone dies to focused PPC and ER LL fire doesn't mean you have to nerf them. What's next? Limiting the amount of PPCs and ER LL that the entire team can have? Unless they do that, those weapons will always be "OP" if a team calls targets and uses focus fire.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Diablobo, on 15 August 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

The LRM discussion here accounts for whether or not we should nerf LRMs, but what about the decision to nerf PPCs and Clan ER LL?

PPCs and Clan ER LL were not OP before, and they nerfed them because......?

Just because someone dies to focused PPC and ER LL fire doesn't mean you have to nerf them. What's next? Limiting the amount of PPCs and ER LL that the entire team can have? Unless they do that, those weapons will always be "OP" if a team calls targets and uses focus fire.

This is a really dumb comparison.

Guess which weapons were featured heavily in the recent PGI Tournament?

Guess which weapons weren't seen beyond the first round?

PPC's and FLD PP damage in general has been a mess for nearly 2 years.

CERLL's nerf was a mess. And it didn't need to go down how it did. The main issue with them was the range.