174 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 26 August 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

Never disputed that (we have 10 unique maps, the others are just same map different environment) breaking new ground isn't hard. That's part of the problem. PGI had 2 decades of road maps, previous iterations, examples, and such. This isn't "new" ground. MW2 had player created CW.
20 years ago
There should ahve been no need to reinvent the wheel on this kind of stuff.

Well they have spent 90% of their time so far on the mech side of things, having 2 different build systems, modules etc. and getting a ui that can handle their design goals. I hope theres more to it eventually than what we are seeing now.

Its only recently they have started working on anything else.

I am as impatient as anyone for sure, it will be interesting to see where it will go from here.

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 August 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[Frostfire]

Sandpit, on 26 August 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

show me anywhere I claimed to have broken a world record. Pull your pants up, your ignorance is showing. You HAVE to run 3 miles in 18 minutes if you want a 100 in that section of your PFT score.

Considering 110 hurdles record is 12.8 seconds
110 sprint record is 9.9 seconds

Maybe you should go back and thwap yourself again?

Edited before you posted. Reasonable and I do admit an error to that.

However, you want a Sucessful multi-million dollar professional game company with a poor development life cycle as this? I already named one. Blizzard. Blizzard has an exceptionally poor development cycle in line with their game and if they don't improve it in the net two expansions, it's not going to go well for them.

By the way, what you're doing is called Poof by example, where as you provide an example to create a logic statement using example.

IE. Gaijin can do it, so everyone should be able to do it.

I stated that in a normal software house, this kind of thing is amazing, and you pointed to another house as direct proof that I am wrong. This is called Proof by example.

Proof by example is a logical fallicy.

I'm sorry, but that's your ignorance showing. You might want to pull up your pants.

Until someone can show me that they know otherwise because they work in a software house and or a game development house, all i'm hearing is arm chair generaling, which is the equivilant of saying "I can read english, therefore I know exactly what it takes to be a good author"

Oh! And you're back GalaxyBlueStar! It's good to see you! Good to see you haven't given up on this game yet!

[Hoax415]

Frostfire, on 26 August 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

Almost all the things you've mentioned here you mention them like they're water gate. That I should understand them. Sorry the little noob doesn't, but I don't. But they sound like minor changes.

So to recap, you don't even know what anyone is talking about and have no concept of how the game has been developed because you just got here. You also for being a professor in game design aren't even clear on what the term noob means. Good show. It takes one post to get you to reduce you pretend academic discourse to basic internet name calling. I'm 100% convinced your credentials are legit.

Frostfire, on 26 August 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

As to them going over the numbers? That's their perogative, they're allowed to do what they want as a game company to ensure their game works to the standards they want. Do you think they sat there in a meeting, twirling around in their chairs, blowing bubbles with spit and someone went "LETS REDO THE NUMBERS" and everyone went "YAY!". Someone is going to jokingly say yes, but do you honestly and seriously believe that's what they're doing?

Next you fail basic reading comprehension. The point was that there is an obvious underlying problem that anyone who has played any BTech game that came before knows exists: namely pinpoint alpha when moving from a TT game that had RNG determined hit locations. If that problem had been addressed by the underlying game systems then they could have saved themselves all that work they did. That was the point.

You continue to miss the point and bring up patch notes. I'm not worried about the undocumented things they do I literally brought up concrete examples of things they did and said: their motives for doing these things and the reasons they needed to do them are bad. Bad for the new players. Bad for the existing players. Bad for the size of the playerbase. Bad for the player's faith in PGI and the game.

Quote

You spoke about making things worse for new players with what they did, but if they made a better first user experience first, then would becry the moans that CW wasn't done. Or something else wasn't done.

So you are professor and you can read my mind and/or travel into the future? You know that's what I would do? Your "points" have now devolved to the level of a high schooler.

Did you really just link me to the boxes with numbers plan roadmap thing?

[GalaxyBluestar]

Quote

Oh! And you're back GalaxyBlueStar! It's good to see you! Good to see you haven't given up on this game yet!

they sure make a lot of from my posts pffffft

another bright spark. best let it fizzle out in it's own delusional world...yes i am leaving this thread

enjoy your loyalty points, year late for purchased product is industry standards

[Sandpit]

Johnny Z, on 26 August 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Its only recently they have started working on anything else.

that's the problem

Frostfire, on 26 August 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Edited before you posted. Reasonable and I do admit an error to that.

However, you want a Sucessful multi-million dollar professional game company with a poor development life cycle as this? I already named one. Blizzard. Blizzard has an exceptionally poor development cycle in line with their game and if they don't improve it in the net two expansions, it's not going to go well for them.

By the way, what you're doing is called Poof by example, where as you provide an example to create a logic statement using example.

IE. Gaijin can do it, so everyone should be able to do it.

I stated that in a normal software house, this kind of thing is amazing, and you pointed to another house as direct proof that I am wrong. This is called Proof by example.

Proof by example is a logical fallicy.

I'm sorry, but that's your ignorance showing. You might want to pull up your pants.

Until someone can show me that they know otherwise because they work in a software house and or a game development house, all i'm hearing is arm chair generaling, which is the equivilant of saying "I can read english, therefore I know exactly what it takes to be a good author"

Oh! And you're back GalaxyBlueStar! It's good to see you! Good to see you haven't given up on this game yet!

show me one game Blizzard has launched that took a year to get to the point that every other game in that genre has already reached by the time they launch

GalaxyBluestar, on 26 August 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

they sure make a lot of from my posts pffffft

another bright spark. best let it fizzle out in it's own delusional world...yes i am leaving this thread

enjoy your loyalty points, year late for purchased product is industry standards

it's always funny watching a new crop of newcomers talk about how it's "ok" because they've only been here a few months
as opposed to years
smh

[SixstringSamurai]

Flash Frame, on 26 August 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Hover over the mech for a couple of seconds [in the list] and you'll see the mech details.

I think someone just THWAP'd themselves.

[Sandpit]

Frostfire, on 26 August 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Until someone can show me that they know otherwise because they work in a software house and or a game development house, all i'm hearing is arm chair generaling, which is the equivilant of saying "I can read english, therefore I know exactly what it takes to be a good author"

Oh! And you're back GalaxyBlueStar! It's good to see you! Good to see you haven't given up on this game yet!

several have, read the forums. No I'm not your librarian, it's out there for you to find. Search box is up there ^

again, closing wallet now means leaving? you're just batting a 1000 tonight aren't ya?

[occusoj]

Quote

show me one game Blizzard has launched that took a year to get to the point that every other game in that genre has already reached by the time they launch

I quit after 8 to 9 month but since Id not expect wonders to happen, Diablo 3 is a prime example.
A disgrace to its franchise. Released version was horribly unfinished, an early beta at best. It was done in a hurry, put together as minimally viable product and hyped to the max.
Balance was just omglol. But remember not even their "strike team" managed to clear inferno. And they had top men working there. Top. Men.
At least their moneygrab RMAH failed. Only fun part about was when it could be abused by changing your local(!!!!!) system time. Even PGI pales in face of that.

edit: The game that was better at launch than D3 was close to a year in: D2.

Edited by occusoj, 26 August 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Sandpit]

occusoj, on 26 August 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

I quit after 8 to 9 month but since Id not expect wonders to happen, Diablo 3 is a prime example.
A disgrace to its franchise. Released version was horribly unfinished, an early beta at best. It was done in a hurry, put together as minimally viable product and hyped to the max.
Balance was just omglol. But remember not even their "strike team" managed to clear inferno. And they had top men working there. Top. Men.
At least their moneygrab RMAH failed. Only fun part about was when it could be abused by changing your local(!!!!!) system time. Even PGI pales in face of that.

edit: The game that was better at launch than D3 was close to a year in: D2.

two things
it didn't take them a year after it launched to fix it

and D3 was NOT a commercial success because of those flaws.

[xX PUG Xx]

I have been around for a while and put a fair few GBP into the game but i am now firmly in the "wait and see" category. The never ending deathmatch cycle for no reason other than grinding Cbills/XP/GXP has reduced my gaming from playing every day to only jumping online if the remains of my Unit are on TS.

The only thing keeping me playing at the moment IS the people on my FL that I enjoy dropping and spending time chatting with.

I have great hopes that eventually we will have a deep and immersing gaming epic in the form of a fully developed and working Community Warfare. However I can understand the position that many have when they decry the likelihood that this will actually happen as the track record for development has been thus far..... spotty.

I work in an industry where development never stops and just when the product is running at what could called almost perfect, or at the very least the common problems are a known quantity and can be dealt with easily, we turn around and bring out a completely new product that has new problems/bugs/ design c*** ups. This process can almost be measured in decades, so waiting another 12 months for PGI to get it right ain't that big a deal for me in the grand scheme of things.

As frustrating as the wait has been I will say that things have improved, the levels of communication have improved, they are hitting their targets, the core gameplay is still good (with a few hiccups here and there) and if they can deliver on their next goals, CW will have a half decent chance of being a crowd puller.

I imagine it will still take time for the game to blossom after the release of CW but it will give the player base something to focus on.

[Wildstreak]

Responses to the OP where I believe called for.

1.2 - Generic statement with no proof to support the argument (like some other things said). Claiming you have to spend real money with no specifics makes no point.

1.3 - Some modules do encourage roles.
Advanced Zoom - either Snipers or Scouts.
Capture Accelerator - not for everyone.
Sensor Range - while anyone can use it, mainly Scouts.
Target Decay - LRM Mechs.
AMS - better for dual AMS users though anyone can use it.
Enhanced NARC - not everyone will take it.
Extra Weapon Range - Snipers and short range (MG, SL, SPL) users I see using them more than anyone else.

Other modules are described as still coming.
If you will quote a message, either link to it or copy & paste the text instead of a somewhat blurring picture of it that is hard to read.

There is no proof of cash grabbing in the new module system, merely it is harder to make use out of all the slots when starting out.

1.4 - Known, the real question is how time is being spent on what issues. What if you had to choose between better tutorials and CW rollout? Even games with better tutorial systems never explain everything and the community has to fill that role.

2.1.1
VOIP - see 1.4
Koniving's post - works in the board game where you can spend all the time you want & need on the details, computer is different, the more you want, the more design and coding has to be done. Not as easy as in the board game. Koniving wants so much, the game would have to be shelved to do it all the right way.
Maps - given what I know about 3D computer modeling, you may not like the answer.
Why give Loyalty Points when there is no reason to use them? Stockpiling? Unfair advantage against those who cannot gain them without items, you will get a boost in points when the system goes public anyway or do you want to discourage people who do not have boost LP items or later new people?

3.1 - sounds like every conspiracy theory I ever heard. Of course they want money, that is why they formed an official business entity, to make profits and provide employment. Some people just complain they want jobs while doing nothing to create them.

3.2 - Communities always offer solutions but not every solution is good.

3.3 - No. While having a flood of map choices seems good, I do not want to be pressured into getting items just to play. Computers have limited space for storing things, I cannot save all those maps for use. Server side maps, the more server space you need, the more it costs the business that eventually gets passed along to the consumer.

[Sandpit]

One other thing to note. There's only one other game that comes to mind immediately when we're talking about infamous delays and horrible production cycles and that's Duke Nuke'em. That's quite a coinkidink ain't it?

[Sahoj]

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4. For PGI. Here is my advice.

--> Lose the current paymodel. It's disgusting bad.
--> Fire the lead designer. Hire a properly one.
--> DO NOT make cash grabbing decisions. Instead make this works from two sides.
--> Improve communication. We need to know as much as possible. Do not hold back. More information means more feedback.
--> Priortise things right. No more MC mechs untill you have a stable client. Client first then you work on content.
--> Only release content when its finished. Make regulary video's and release info on this matter.
--> Use the community. It's a hidden power.
--> Accept, learn and adapt community solutions. Rework things if neccesary like heat system and more.

That's far i can think of. Anymore would be great.



Thanks for reading. Have a good day sir.

You're an idiot. My apologies for calling you an idiot.

Your title is misleading, insulting and ignorant - no hard information has been released on CW.
We do not know how Community Warfare will change the game.
Many people play and enjoy MWO - perhaps the lead designer/design team should be rewarded.
PGI does use the feedback from the community - they use the information that they feel is most useful.
Portions of the community are a powerful tool and portions are whining, anonymous kids on the internet.
I do not disagree with the current pay model or 'cash grabs'. No one is forcing anyone to buy stompy robots.

MWO has improved significantly over the last two years. If you don't recognize that - you're an idiot.

If history is our guide then MWO will continue to improve - albeit slowly. I don't think the game has reached its ceiling.

Cheers,
Sahoj

Edited by Sahoj, 26 August 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[Sandpit]

Sahoj, on 26 August 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

MWO has improved significantly over the last two years. If you don't recognize that - you're an idiot.

Ok....
since you're being a rude condescending Dbag to someone you don't know, who didn't say anything about you personally and didn't resort to childish name calling, let me just preface this with "sorry for calling you a condescending dbag"

Who said the game hasn't improved? Maybe you should read and comprehend before insulting the intelligence of someone you don't even know.

There's a big difference between "this game hasn't improved" and "the development cycle, delays, and serious lack of any content outside of monetized mechs and cockpit items sucks"

Does that help you understand the stance better? I hope so, if not I can type slower next time.

[Mazikar]

Sahoj, on 26 August 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

You're an idiot. My apologies for calling you an idiot.

Your title is misleading, insulting and ignorant - no hard information has been released on CW.
We do not know how Community Warfare will change the game.
Many people play and enjoy MWO - perhaps the lead designer/design team should be rewarded.
PGI does use the feedback from the community - they use the information that they feel is most useful.
Portions of the community are a powerful tool and portions are whining, anonymous kids on the internet.
I do not disagree with the current pay model or 'cash grabs'. No one is forcing anyone to buy stompy robots.

MWO has improved significantly over the last two years. If you don't recognize that - you're an idiot.

If history is our guide then MWO will continue to improve - albeit slowly. I don't think the game has reached its ceiling.

Cheers,
Sahoj

I for one would love for you to tell all of us what has changed for the betterment of MWO? I can think of a few things that are worse now than when I started in closed beta. *cough* mechlab, gauss. Look, its ok to like this game, I still like it in a way, its the best online stompy robot game with the Battletech License. Being the best of a empty market is the best this game will get for now. I don't regret any of my purchases, I have gotten entertainment from them, but I would not call this game improved, it just has more mechs.

I still hope this game gets better and delivers on its original goals, but I will be surprised if it does at this point.