112 replies to this topic

[VanillaG]

MonkeyCheese, on 17 August 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

um that is why there is testing and talks of 10clan vs 12IS...

That and honestly in a Pure clan vs IS fight like the ones I participated in on the NGNG TS clan lights are complete trash when it comes to scouting sure they can boat weapons and defend the fatties but that entire element of spotting/distraction/tag/narc just aint there, clans need a 130kph-170kph mech

They are coming, but some of the clan mechs that go over 130 are mediums.

[Lefty Lucy]

VanillaG, on 17 August 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

They are coming, but some of the clan mechs that go over 130 are mediums.

I really want Ice Ferrets and Dragonflies.

[Vassago Rain]

Lefty Lucy, on 17 August 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Well, they're already closing the gap at the top, but that's because there's only so many kills you can get in a single round, and the top players are really competing for 10 "perfect" rounds.


You forgot:
4) All IS mechs are piloted by green scrubs too fat to even move their mouse, while only valiant, blood-named, trueborn warriors are allowed to purchase Clan mech packs.

The first requirement to be a clanner is a fat credit card.

It's like scientology.

[Mystere]

Jeb, on 17 August 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

yes... if your balancing clan mechs, then you tweak the ones that need fixes so they are balanced... regardless of if they are underpowered or overpowered... its' called balance fixes, not nerf clans.

I can see it now ...

PGI: We are introducing a new game mechanic. It's called "Clan Ghost Heat". Clans can fire only 1 weapon at any time.






Oh, snap! They just tried to do that with the CERLL.

[wanderer]

Rhialto, on 16 August 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

I look at the Heavy leaderboard and notice that the 15th from Clan have more points than the very 1st from IS. Also, 2,711 for the 1st in Clan is a lot more higher than the 1st IS with 2,115.

What can explain this?

Clan 'Mechs generally put more damage into a target to kill it, meaning better scores. Also, Clan 'Mechs are missing some critical parts of their damage modeling- most notably being able to operate at 100% with a side torso XL blown off (which should be giving it serious heat problems instead.).

[Aresye]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

I highly doubt IS Mediums, Heavies and Assaults can close the gap. Never in any previous tourneys have I seen a score like 2,993. Even during 40 damage Arty tourney the highest was around 2,500 but the Clanners blew past it easily.

TwinkieOverlord is also #1 for Clan Lights, despite the fact it's pretty much known that the Kit Fox and Adder are both sub par compared to IS lights. He was also #1 last tournament for House Davion.

Maybe...just maybe...TwinkieOverlord is a really good player.

[Koniving]

Why IS lights are doing so well.
Also, IS mechs are superior, look at that SINGLE HEATSINK AWESOME'S SCORE!

Which outdoes 2 full Clan lances on the enemy team and every enemy player except one.

Despite how the final stand was 3 against 6, then 2 against 6, and I started recording somewhere in there.

Also, some maths on the Clan ER LL versus the IS ER LL. As well as a far better balancing thing that gives IS ER LL better burst damage (pop and shoot) and Clan ER LL better damage over time (aggressive combat).

Edited by Koniving, 17 August 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Zoid]

The more pertinent information as far as balance goes is that the Clan Heavies are on par with or ahead of CLAN Assaults, with the exception of the top two spots (at least right now).

I'd be really interested to see what would happen to this 90% number if you removed the Timberwolf temporarily. It's the only one that's really way out of line with everything else.

Edited by Zoid, 17 August 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[El Bandito]

Aresye, on 17 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

TwinkieOverlord is also #1 for Clan Lights, despite the fact it's pretty much known that the Kit Fox and Adder are both sub par compared to IS lights. He was also #1 last tournament for House Davion. Maybe...just maybe...TwinkieOverlord is a really good player.

Maybe...just maybe...TwinkieOverlord is a really good player who scores even better due to piloting a Clan mech. I'd like to see him pull the same number with any IS Assaults but I doubt it.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Vassago Rain, on 17 August 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

The first requirement to be a clanner is a fat credit card.

It's like scientology.

Not true! Summoners were for C-Bills... For like 20 minutes.

[Xarian]

Clan mechs have higher damage per match than IS mechs. This is due to the heavy use of lasers and missiles, both which spray damage around everywhere. This in turn leads to higher scores. it's not rocket science.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Well, right now the Clan tops are up about 300 points each in Medium, Heavy, and Assault classes, and down about 100 points in Light.

If we attribute that entirely to damage, that's 1500 damage total over ten matches- about 150 extra damage per match.

That's not all that much, really.


As for the culprit- I'm inclined to believe a mixture of things.

First of all, clan weaponry is slightly lighter and smaller and slightly better than Inner Sphere tech. Most noteworthy in this are the lasers, which spray damage all over the place, as Xarian and others have noted, and the fact that Clan autocannon essentially spread their damage as well. For a skilled player, though, this spread shouldn't be accounting a full 150 damage per match.

Secondly, the majority of the pilots driving Clan 'mechs are experienced players who have the investment of time and effort already into the game to make the monetary price relatively acceptable for them. I don't think this accounts for the entire discrepancy, or the Inner Sphere numbers wouldn't even approach because the pilots would be failing to focus fire at all.

Third, Clan 'mechs that lose a side torso haven't lost anything more than an Inner Sphere 'mech with a standard engine loses from having its own shoulder blown off.

I don't think any of these three things on its own is drastic enough to account for the difference, but put together, that should work out for it.

[Jman5]

Malineczka, on 17 August 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Spoiler

L2P

And how much of that damage was farmed on the last disconnected awesome? If you did it right, you could milk one awesome for 600 damage.

Edited by Jman5, 17 August 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[El Bandito]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 17 August 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Secondly, the majority of the pilots driving Clan 'mechs are experienced players who have the investment of time and effort already into the game to make the monetary price relatively acceptable for them.

You speak as if those who are the top 15 in the IS side are somehow inferior in piloting skills than the Clan side. I can accept the general IS population having less overall experience, but do you really think the ones on top of the IS board are handicapped by skill rather than tech difference?

The answer is no. I see on both sides names I know well, from previous tourneys. It is the tech that decides the scores.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

You speak as if those who are the top 15 in the IS side are somehow inferior in piloting skills than the Clan side. I can accept the general IS population having less overall experience, but do you really think the ones on top on the IS board are handicapped by skill rather than tech difference?

The answer is no. I see on both sides names I know well from previous tourneys. It is the tech that decides the scores.

OTOH it is a known fact that people with Clan mechs are just better human beings overall.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

What the Red Baron is much slower than an ATF? ...the ATF needs nerf!

Sorry below place 10 even the assaults are nearly equal.

[WVAnonymous]

I'm not sure I've ever seen someone do a 300 point match. On the other hand maybe I died so fast I just didn't notice it...

[Tiamat of the Sea]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

You speak as if those who are the top 15 in the IS side are somehow inferior in piloting skills than the Clan side. I can accept the general IS population having less overall experience, but do you really think the ones on top of the IS board are handicapped by skill rather than tech difference?

The answer is no. I see on both sides names I know well, from previous tourneys. It is the tech that decides the scores.

I disagree partially with your conclusion, but your argument is sustained.

The only previous tourney I was in was Medium Vs. The World, and I don't see that many names on any of the boards that were from the boards of that tourney- and those I do are mostly on the Clan side of things. As I can only go off of information I have, I stand by the position that Clan 'mechs are mostly owned by more experienced pilots- not better, but more experienced- which is a different difference, but still a difference.

Edit: Also, probably people who have more time to play during and both get into the 'groove' of play, and overwrite unlucky matches.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 17 August 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[Aresye]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

You speak as if those who are the top 15 in the IS side are somehow inferior in piloting skills than the Clan side. I can accept the general IS population having less overall experience, but do you really think the ones on top of the IS board are handicapped by skill rather than tech difference?

The answer is no. I see on both sides names I know well, from previous tourneys. It is the tech that decides the scores.

And that is why it's broken up between IS and Clan tech.

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

You speak as if those who are the top 15 in the IS side are somehow inferior in piloting skills than the Clan side. I can accept the general IS population having less overall experience, but do you really think the ones on top of the IS board are handicapped by skill rather than tech difference?

The answer is no. I see on both sides names I know well, from previous tourneys. It is the tech that decides the scores.

It could be that Clan mechs (even those piloted by people who have no chance of showing up amongst the top players) are hoovering up all of the sweet sweet armor points by bukkakeing damage all over their opponents, leaving less armor points for the skilled IS pilots to hoover up with their more easily focused damage.

Clan weapons are longer ranged AND they tend to spread damage, so...

?