35 replies to this topic

[xJohnWolf]

Not sure what this guy is complaining about. But if he drops in the group queue he shouldn't be complaining about lack of teamwork since his "little group" could bring things to counter ecm and use teamwork. You know, like a group.

I have 201 mechs at the time of posting this comment. All of the variants are mastered and some mechs I have 2, 3, or even 4 of just so I don't have to change builds around in the clunky interface. Well played PGI, well played. Anyways, I don't consider myself one of the greatest players, but I am definitely well rounded. I can jump into any situation and usually do well. From lights to assaults, sniping to brawling, scouting to lrming. There are tons of ways to play this game and I love trying to master all of them. So when I read threads like this, it screams to me that someone is complaining because they would rather the game conform to the way they would like to play so that they can win all the time despite being an inferior player. Up your game, play more, be a better shot, be better at strategy.

As for LRMs... I'll just leave this here: 2xLRM10, 3xLRM5, 4xML, 1TAG, 1BAP, AMMMMMOOOOOOO + knowing how to position for LRMing, getting my own locks, and knowing when to fire and how to fire. I've done this since LRMaggeddon and through all the patches with very little variance in effectiveness. Most of the nerfs or buffs just require some adjustment in your play style in order to adapt. They normally don't completely make a weapon useless. If you find that something in the game is making your play style not work as well, try changing your play style instead of complaining that the game sucks or should be changed. It's not rocket science. I don't want to seem disrespectful, but most of your complaints can be responded to by: L2P

[xJohnWolf]

And before people start talking about how LRMing is easy mode, go ahead and try it yourself. It actually takes skill. Just a different kind of skill. Little more tactics and a little less twitch shooting. As for other styles of play...


And... a little more jump snipey....


I feel as though I have invalidated your arguments.

Edited by xNoSkillz, 17 August 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The group queue is for people with something to prove. That's why they turn into a niche little circle, and eventually end up hating each other when they run out of outsiders to hate. It's a lesson in futility with the ultimate diminishing returns.

[Kutfroat]

Vassago Rain, on 17 August 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Maybe if you brought some guns that aren't LRMs.

again: only 2 out of my 33 mechs even use lrms. both are trebuchets (no stalker or battlemaster). still i managed (in the groupqueue where supposedly the more routined people play) to get several games with 3 or more kills, 5 or more assists and 500+ damage, just because barely someone brought ams. that was me and a friend in a treb 7m with 1x lrm 10, 1x lrm 5 +artemis and 4 tons of ammo (3 med lasers back up), not what i would call the usual lrm boat. and concerning ecm, it´s op not only when used as a counter against lrms. when massed it cloaks the whole team. no info about your target (or from where they are aproaching) at all. again, i don´t like lrms, but the current people calling for nerfs should maybe sacrafice 2 med lasers for ams and 1 ton of ammo. but i also feel the ppc speed nerf was too much, now it´s at best a mid range weapon. so to clearify once more: no, i´m not a lrm player.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

I think it would be interesting if BAP worked out to about 500M.

It is kinda a laugh that you know someone with ECM is around by minimap disruption before BAP will even kick in.

And 150M is in your face, literally...

[Kutfroat]

xNoSkillz, on 17 August 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Not sure what this guy is complaining about. But if he drops in the group queue he shouldn't be complaining about lack of teamwork since his "little group" could bring things to counter ecm and use teamwork. You know, like a group.

I have 201 mechs at the time of posting this comment. All of the variants are mastered and some mechs I have 2, 3, or even 4 of just so I don't have to change builds around in the clunky interface. Well played PGI, well played. Anyways, I don't consider myself one of the greatest players, but I am definitely well rounded. I can jump into any situation and usually do well. From lights to assaults, sniping to brawling, scouting to lrming. There are tons of ways to play this game and I love trying to master all of them. So when I read threads like this, it screams to me that someone is complaining because they would rather the game conform to the way they would like to play so that they can win all the time despite being an inferior player. Up your game, play more, be a better shot, be better at strategy.

As for LRMs... I'll just leave this here: 2xLRM10, 3xLRM5, 4xML, 1TAG, 1BAP, AMMMMMOOOOOOO + knowing how to position for LRMing, getting my own locks, and knowing when to fire and how to fire. I've done this since LRMaggeddon and through all the patches with very little variance in effectiveness. Most of the nerfs or buffs just require some adjustment in your play style in order to adapt. They normally don't completely make a weapon useless. If you find that something in the game is making your play style not work as well, try changing your play style instead of complaining that the game sucks or should be changed. It's not rocket science. I don't want to seem disrespectful, but most of your complaints can be responded to by: L2P

there is no real counter to ecm (and i use it myself - in fact the only lights i recently play are ones with ecm, and the by far most viable atlas is the ddc...wonder why?). ecm is a one time, allways "on" item that takes no skill to use. every "counter" that is not a consumable needs you to take a risk to be effective. 1 or maybe up to 3 are good for the game, but more on a team (in the current state of the ecm) is op.

[Mystere]

sneeking, on 17 August 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

better distribution of resources and utilities would achieve more than tonnage or 3333, matchmaker should discriminate accordingly.

In short, what you are asking for is matchmaking perfection.

sneeking, on 17 August 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

at least then you could blame nobody but yourself because you had everything you needed, no more they got all the lrm they had all the ecm they weighed more.... lol

Why don't we all just have locusts armed with 1 machine gun and 1 ton of ammo. In that way everyone is equal in equipment and there will be no one else to blame for a loss except yourself ...

Oh wait, that's not enough. The players in the match are not perfectly equal to each other. That's just not fair.

[xJohnWolf]

That team that I hit 1600 on with LRMs had ECM... So if it is so OP, then.... Your lack of logic is troubling.

[Sandpit]

It's interesting that only one small part of the entire post was about lrms and that's the only thing that was focused on

[Rehooja]

Heya,

Very good points OP.

I also hate to go up organized 12 mans with a team that consist from smaller groups. I'd say that it would be better if 12 mans could only play against other 12 or 2x6 mans. Groups larger then 6 or smaller then 12 would not be allowed in that qeue.

Then on the other hand there should be a matchmaker for groups consisting 4 players (a lance) or groups of 2.

Other group sizes (3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) would not be allowed.

[Flyby215]

Armament, on 17 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

But.. guns require skill!

LRM mechs should always (or most of the time) be engaging the enemy with direct line of sight. Hell, I carry UAV and TAG on my missile Catapults and am always on the front lines. You can't sit back 1000m behind your teammates and expect to do well.

I agree with this sentiment. For many missile boats, you need enemies to be far dumber, or teammates who are brilliant at toros twisting to survive being in the line of fire for extended times trying to keep target locks for their safely hidden boats.

People who play missiles consistently well are built to fight on the front line anyway, using line or sight and/or smart positioning, to not have to depend on teammates for cover and locks.

I happily run missile hybrids in the group queue. In fact, one of my best dueling stories was in my a Stalker (3H I think, the one with 20 missile tubes). 2xLRM20, 2xSRM6, 4xML. Two Banshees around the corner in Canyon; my teammate was cored and trying to position to wait them out. So I called "go go go" and flat charged. One of the Banshees tried to close the range, so I fired the MLs and SRMs into him, while targeting his partner with the LRMs. My teammates came in behind me, and we took the two Banshees down. One of the Banshee pilots cursed me out saying he never expected the missile boat to push... albiet I was a hybrid.

Good times.

[Bront]

Kutfroat, on 17 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

4. ecm: matchmaker needs to take ecm into account. as long as there are only 3 on a team, the games are more tactical, because it allows for more movement, but not the whole team is coverd at all times. when massed, it´s brokenly op. so either change it, or limit it (same for the soloqueue of course) to 3 per team. especially for the 12 man premades it should be limited to 3. because it´s the single reason why lrms are useless against this teams. not their "uber" skills in hiding in cover - but mass ecm. and don´t get me wrong, i´m not a fan of lrms, but no weapon should be rendered useless by 1 item.

It's already limited to 9 in a normal 3-3-3-3 match, but since you rarely get 3 DDCs, 3 Cicada-3Ms, and 3 ECM Lights in the same group, 3 is often what you end up with anyway, often less. It just feels like there's more ECM than there is at times due to range and teammates not targeting properly at times (still happens in the group queue)

Kutfroat, on 17 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

5. air and arty strikes: should only be available to lights and mediums AND there should be a global team cooldown on them. so only 1 strike in 1 or 2 minutes.

There's already a 1 minute global team cooldown. They were supposed to address strikes in the last patch and didn't. In theory, limit of 1 strike per mech, and Clans won't be able to use Arty.

Kutfroat, on 17 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

6. radar dep. module: broken as ecm. when every single mech on a team uses it. change it to something like, time needed to get the target rectingle and information is doubled, or trippled. but as it is it´s just broken. in its current state it´s like a mini ecm, but every mech can use it.

I know several folks who dislike the Radar Dep module. There are ways around it, but honestly, that's generally how radar is supposed to work. You lose your LOS to the mech, it drops off your radar, not hangs around for a few seconds later.

I've never used the radar dep module myself. Too CBill poor.

Edited by Bront, 17 August 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

OK,

Don't like arty/air

Don't like ppc/gauss

Don't like LRMs (but has issues with equipment that counters it)


*if you add CW, maps, and ghost heat you may be on your way to some ground breaking stuff here. Don't be scared to go there,, all do at some point.

[ApolloKaras]

I will have to agree with one point, Radar Dep. It's the new pre nerf Seismic

[topgun505]

Kutfroat, on 17 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

* when every single mech on a team uses it. *

*snip* Yes. Whenever everyone is using a particular item it is a likely indication that something about it is broken.

However. Let's root-cause analyze this. What does it do? All it does is make your opponent immediately lose lock when they lose LOS on you.

Ok.

What does that effect? Streaks? Sure. But I really don't see a hoard of streak-boats running around ... do you? So what what else does that leave? The only other thing it impacts is LRMs.

That tells me that despite all the raging back and forth regarding LRMs that evidently there must in fact be a balance issue with LRMs if a majority of players out there deem it important enough to carry Radar Dep.

Right now it seems like there's about an equal number of LRMs are OP and pro-LRM supporters presently ... but that's WITH Radar Dep on the field. So that tells me that without Radar Dep there'd likely be a majority in the LRM is OP crowd.

It sounds like LRMs losing lock the moment LOS is broken is one of the key points that would (potentially) help balance them out. So it sounds like LRMs were basically holding their lock/tracking for too long after LOS-break and thus effectively nullifying cover to an extent.

[Johnny Z]

xNoSkillz, on 17 August 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

And before people start talking about how LRMing is easy mode, go ahead and try it yourself. It actually takes skill. Just a different kind of skill. Little more tactics and a little less twitch shooting. As for other styles of play...


And... a little more jump snipey....


I feel as though I have invalidated your arguments.

Good point, who says skill is twitch shooting.