76 replies to this topic

[Kaspirikay]

******* terra therma guys

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lord Scarlett Johan of Yazoo, on 18 August 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

As often as WoT and WT get compared to MWO, Warthunder has attention to detail going for it and WoT has map quantity going for it. Other than that, those games are garbage regarding balance that they make MWO look fair and balanced.

There is a different kind of balance going on with both WT and WoT.

MWO tries to balance all mechs against each other so that all mechs have an equal chance of destroying any mech in the game despite difference in weight. This as we know doesn't work so well.

WoT balances based on a full team, not on a tank per tank basis. In general something of the same tier performs similar but it is not expected that a Tier 8 will perform like a Tier 10.

WT has the best balance because it really doesn't try to balance. Rather it lets the player balance themselves. All they have is an upper limit on what Tier of tank or airplane you can choose. This is based on the highest tier you currently have activated though you can bring a lower tier if you want.

The key to WT is that battles are either respawn battles or historical. If you opt for historical you get historical for good or ill. If you opt for arcade you get respawn and get to do a garage battle where you can decide while tank you want to use. Find you need a heavy tank, you eject and bring out your Tiger, so on and so forth. Sure you sometimes find yourself individually outmatched but since the tank composition is changing throughout the battle, you generally get relative balance. Also that balance is maintained throughout the match because unlike MWO where losing 1 or 2 mechs early puts that team at a serious disadvantage, in WT you always have reinforcements rolling in to replace destroyed teammates.

Honestly WT has the best battle system of the bunch and each and every battle can go either way at the drop of a hat. Rarely do you see any true shutouts or dominations. Also they don't even try to balance on a tank per tank basis, rather they leave it up to the player to chose the best tank for the job. If MWO did this, it would be 100 times better.

[Alistair Winter]

Andross Deverow, on 18 August 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

Oooooooook....
* Your first point - What color is the sky in your world?
* Your second point - Refer to my question regarding your first point.
* Let me say that you are horribly mistaken on your third point. Noone other than yourself feels that 1 map/year is acceptable. In all actuality it is a joke that PGI has so little content for this game after a couple years.
* Your fourth point - Refer to my question regarding your first point.
* Your fifth point - Refer to my question regarding your first point.
Regards

• Yellow
  
• Blue
  
• This game doesn't need more maps or game modes. We just need.... moar new mechs!!1!!1one
  
• Red
  
• Blue

DustySkunk, on 18 August 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Crysis, MW:LL and Far Cry would like a word with you...

Alistair, you are right that maps are not easy to make. However I think you need to re-examine some of your statements here. There are games that use the Crytek engines that allow for everything you said was false.

I think you need to re-examine some of my statements.

This guy would like a word with you.

Spoiler

[Xyroc]

oh the idiots on here talking about selling map packs now ... quit giving them pack Ideas ... this game needs micro transactions because you know it is "free to play" not these huge pack macro transactions every 6 months.

[Kyle Wright]

Viktor Drake, on 18 August 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Well I think the issue isn't that they can't make maps, but rather they don't want to make maps.

There was a PGI post where they came right out and said that maps take up resources and since maps provide very little financial return (as opposed to hero mechs, clan mechs and swag) that maps were considered a very low priority.

So if and only if they can figure out a way to get away with charging for access to new map, then we will get new maps.

Pretty sad really.

I remember a computer company I worked for. At the time is was bigger than Dell and its stock split like two to three times in less than 2 years because it was doing so well. Then new management came in and basically looked at the financials and realized that they only made about a 10% profit on selling a computer but made anywhere from 25%-200% profit on selling printers, scanners, cables and software. They then made it mandatory for its sales reps to sell 5 addons for each computer in order to keep our jobs so inevitably the sales reps stop focusing on selling computers and focused on selling everything else.

Here is the problem, they forgot that Software, Printers, Scanners and cables were useless without the computer and that people were coming to the store to buy a computer not the other stuff so the company closed its retail operation about 6 months after the change.

PGI is doing the same thing. The are forgetting that Hero mechs, Clan packs and swag are useless without a good game to back it up. If they don't get it though their head soon that the Game needs to come first, they are going to end up just like that multibillion dollar computer company I worked for that lost 75% of its market share in 6 months.

You mean this

[Little Details]

Lack of MWO maps has always made me sad. Seeing MWLL maps has now made me depressed. God. I can only imagine rolling hills/terrain instead of just big asset 'blocks' that are there to only block sight lines or lasers/ac.

[1453 R]

A note, for all those idjits who feel like they could pump out a new map every week if it was just a terrain box with no assets beyond hills and ponds.

The one time Piranha released a map which was pretty much nothing but a terrain box with hills, not even ponds, it was called Alpine. Everyone I know hates it beyond all comprehension. Half the forum wants it pulled from rotation because it offers no real cover, due to being nothing but a hilly terrain box without any concealment or buildup in it, and is a serious pain in the keister for anything but Gausstarts.

Just a thing to remember. Y'know, since everyone on this forum down to the eight-year-olds borrowing their dad's account can apparently program high-caliber maps on their lunch breaks and all.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Turist0AT, on 18 August 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

WT is a simulator. balance can go f it self.

Simulator my ass. It's as much of a simulator as MWO or ARMA is.

And since MWO is also a simulator, let's roll back all the nerfs to everything, especially the Victor, Highlander, JJ, PPC, and Gauss nerfs. Because 'f' balance right?

[Wolfways]

Just because.

[DustySkunk]

Alistair Winter, on 18 August 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I think you need to re-examine some of my statements.

This guy would like a word with you.

Spoiler

Lol roger that, Alistair. When I first read your reply I was all geared up to go grab examples and screen-caps, then I read your original post more closely. Good show!

That's what I get for trying to post on the forums while having my morning coffee! Sorry for not reading what you wrote earlier with my sarcasm detector fully operational yet.

[Alistair Winter]

Wolfways, on 18 August 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Just because.

Now I'm sad

DustySkunk, on 18 August 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Lol roger that, Alistair. When I first read your reply I was all geared up to go grab examples and screen-caps, then I read your original post more closely. Good show!
That's what I get for trying to post on the forums while having my morning coffee! Sorry for not reading what you wrote earlier with my sarcasm detector fully operational yet.

No worries, mate. To be honest, I felt kind of guilty that you took the time to write all that

[Wolfways]

Alistair Winter, on 18 August 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Now I'm sad

It's PGI that should be sad

[CyclonerM]

Alistair Winter, on 18 August 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

Let me just debunk a few myths in this thread:

• "Other games have destructible terrain". False. Destructible terrain is impossible with today's technology, otherwise we would have it in this game. We used to have 1 destructible tree, but it had to be removed because it crashed the servers.
  
• "It's fairly easy to make maps. Many amateurs have made great maps on their spare time, as a hobby." False. Maps are extremely complex and mysterious. It costs $250,000 to make a map, and it will be full of bugs, broken geometry and places where you will get stuck.
  
• "Cryengine supports maps with random and changing daylight settings, different weather conditions, etc." False. It only supports daylight and some kind impossible dusk seen in River City Night, where everything is dark up close, but relatively bright far away, to the point where it's easier to spot enemies if they're hiding further away. Random weather conditions for every match is also impossible.

Well, i think MW:LL proves all these points or part of them are actually true..

[Ryoken]

1453 R, on 18 August 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

The one time Piranha released a map which was pretty much nothing but a terrain box with hills, not even ponds, it was called Alpine. Everyone I know hates it beyond all comprehension. Half the forum wants it pulled from rotation because it offers no real cover, due to being nothing but a hilly terrain box without any concealment or buildup in it, and is a serious pain in the keister for anything but Gausstarts.

I must live in the other half of the forum?! I love Alpine and I dislike those narrow spaces maps that feel so much to small for a 12v12 engagement. I really wish there would be more larger maps with wide spaces like I remember from MW2. I really liked the desolate feel of those maps, fighting over some scarce resources/strategic objectives on a hardly populated planet.

So I guess we need both to please the community. Big and wide desolate maps as well as narrow small (Sol7 arena!) maps.

[William Mountbank]

I see a lot of posts mentioning how MW:LL has great maps made by enthusiasts in their spare time.

As an enthusiast with some spare time who was once a character mesh artist, I would rather see posts asking for 3rd party tools and an open match making platform. You know, like all those FPS games have had for the last 20 years. Give me the tools and I'll slap you right in your mech loving face with so much jungle/urban/swamp/meadow/disneyworld content you'll choke like an Astech in a coolant bath.

But I guess instead we can just shoot the breeze while we wait for PGI to sort of suggest they might promise to one day do that, like after they've made enough money so that they can comfortably waste their time on non-commercial fripperies.

[Scratx]

1453 R, on 18 August 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

A note, for all those idjits who feel like they could pump out a new map every week if it was just a terrain box with no assets beyond hills and ponds.

The one time Piranha released a map which was pretty much nothing but a terrain box with hills, not even ponds, it was called Alpine. Everyone I know hates it beyond all comprehension. Half the forum wants it pulled from rotation because it offers no real cover, due to being nothing but a hilly terrain box without any concealment or buildup in it, and is a serious pain in the keister for anything but Gausstarts.

Just a thing to remember. Y'know, since everyone on this forum down to the eight-year-olds borrowing their dad's account can apparently program high-caliber maps on their lunch breaks and all.

Alpine's badly designed because of the overly dominating terrain feature on H10 called, you know, The Mountain That Wins The Game Most Of The Time For The Team That Gets There First™.

This is compounded particularly badly if one side is much heavier on clans than the other, because the much longer sight lines than average compared to other maps (especially for the side that holds the heights) plays right to their strengths.

Much as I may hate the small maps like River City and Forest Colony and Frozen City for frame rate issues and sheer plain "Being old and such", they do have the quality of cutting down on sniper fire a lot.

You can make largely terrain-only maps just fine and still make them good. Look at, for example, Canyon Network... it's a pretty fun map, consistently good frame rates and it didn't need large amounts of unique models to pull off.

Most importantly, you could build new maps and reuse those assets and nobody would blink an eye at that. Saves on 3d modelling.

[Turist0AT]

Lord Scarlett Johan of Yazoo, on 18 August 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Simulator my ass. It's as much of a simulator as MWO or ARMA is.

Unless you play in the kiddie pool.

Lord Scarlett Johan of Yazoo, on 18 August 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

And since MWO is also a simulator, let's roll back all the nerfs to everything, especially the Victor, Highlander, JJ, PPC, and Gauss nerfs.

YES! Dont forget the Ghost Heat and missiles. Rework streaks.



Oh and add easy mode for scrubs ppl like you.

Edited by Turist0AT, 18 August 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Please refrain from posting any more videos of beautiful, huge maps we will never even get close to see in this game.

[Asmudius Heng]

Roland, on 18 August 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

It's kind of sad that a company could be so shortsighted as to not grasp that more maps would mean more people enjoy playing the game, which would mean they would buy more stuff.

Which is why I worry it is deliberate by PGI and they are trying to cahs in as often and as early as they can before they set MWO to be on life support and minimise staffing to just maintain.

Or that they are truly so poor businessmen to understand that a happy player base with mroe to do in the game will stay longer and spend more.

Either one is a scary prospect.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Khobai, on 17 August 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Pretty much. Based on the mediocrity of MWO's maps, we should not be seeing less than 1 new map every month.

Although I wouldnt mind waiting 2 months between maps if they were much larger and much higher quality.

Also it would be nice if the community could somehow contribute maps if thats an area PGI is struggling in.

Yeah, maps double the size would be so much more fun. I find it boring and annoying to step out of deployment and have myself hammered by the entire enemy team...which happens on Caustic.....I walked around a big boulder and up over a hill and got plastered by like 3 PPC, rocket locks, gauss rifles and everything else......MWO maps are like Call of Duty sized, or even Ghost Recon Phantoms sized, but we have over scaled 5 story robotic machines.......very boring.

I like openness, like Planetside 2....Where we are free to roam, and there isnt a gun around every corner...well, PS2 has that,..in big ass zergs, but meh...not my point lol.