33 replies to this topic

[Kilo 40]

personally I'm completely fine with the change. I've always thought it was way too fast.

[Fooooo]

I wouldn't be against upping the ERPPC's speed as it is more for mid to long range, whereas the normal PPC is a short to mid-range weapon.

It also has a higher amount of heat etc etc etc........





I'd really prefer proper range penaltys tho and put the speeds somewhat back to what they were.


IE under 250m ppcs start losing dmg rapidly down to say 2 or 3 dmg at 100m and under etc etc. (instead of the 150 or whatever is it for normal ppcs now ?)


Under 500m and gauss starts losing dmg.

This all moreso to show their roles than anything else, or at least, what they are "best" at.

It also means you can have an ac/10 do 10 dmg, and a ppc do 10dmg, but under 300M the ac/10 wins , over 400m and the ppc wins etc etc......(only works if ac/10 suffers an earlier dmg dropoff than now etc etc)

Edited by Fooooo, 19 August 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

The problem being that it doesn't fill a role anymore and has been replaced by the LL. Not just as an option, but fully replaced. Its still usable, that's not the problem, but it is less effective at its job than the LL is. PPCs are meant to be a long range weapon (ER more so) and by halving the speed its been relegated to an inefficient Short-Mid weapon instead of the Mid-Long range it should be.

I'm not saying 200m/s is the right number to increase and make the PPC useful again, maybe its 100m/s. However, its too slow at its current speed and negates any advantage the weapon has against long range targets (ASSAULTS can dodge the thing...it lost its role).

[FDJustin]

Monkey Lover, on 19 August 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

I dodged them all the time on alpine in my dire. Push up shoot my gauss, move back down , ppc ppc over head

I still dodge them at 100 meters in my firestarters. But at that range, you're no longer dodging the projectile. You're dodging the barrel.

[William Mountbank]

I can take PPC not being a sniper weapon, but I can't tell whether Russ is referring to ERPPC as well when he says they aren't a sniper weapon.

I thought the whole point or ERPPC was that it was a ranged weapon? I certainly use it like one on my Spider and Blackjacks, but I guess those are already pretty good mechs that can tolerate some excessive nerfing, and probably my dual ERPPC Blackjacks were boating too many of one sort of weapon anyway.

[Vassago Rain]

What they should have done is cut the speed if you have more than one PPC.

The problem has never been single PPC users. I'm also all for IS ER PPC having vastly superior speeds to the clan version, so it has some kind of purpose.

[MischiefSC]

MauttyKoray, on 19 August 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

The problem being that it doesn't fill a role anymore and has been replaced by the LL. Not just as an option, but fully replaced. Its still usable, that's not the problem, but it is less effective at its job than the LL is. PPCs are meant to be a long range weapon (ER more so) and by halving the speed its been relegated to an inefficient Short-Mid weapon instead of the Mid-Long range it should be.

I'm not saying 200m/s is the right number to increase and make the PPC useful again, maybe its 100m/s. However, its too slow at its current speed and negates any advantage the weapon has against long range targets (ASSAULTS can dodge the thing...it lost its role).

No, PPC is an energy AC10. It does PPFLD, lets you stick and move. As I said; I use 3 of them on my Banshee with a Gauss and plenty of my IS mechs carry 2. I have some Clan builds with ERPPCs. They work great - unlike lasers I don't have to stare someone down for a second to do my damage. My Banshee can drop 45pts on a single location at 300-500m instantly, pivot away and take damage with its arms. Can't do that with lasers, at all.

If you want a sniper weapon use a gauss or an ERLL. If you want PPFLD and ECM disruption, bring PPCs. It's a choice now - not an obligation.

I hit people at 800 m + with ERPPCs all the time. I get hit at that range by them. Saying they don't work is like saying AC5s-AC20s don't work and only AC2s work. Of course they all work - you just have to lead the target some.

[FDJustin]

William Mountbank, on 19 August 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

I can take PPC not being a sniper weapon, but I can't tell whether Russ is referring to ERPPC as well when he says they aren't a sniper weapon.

I thought the whole point or ERPPC was that it was a ranged weapon? I certainly use it like one on my Spider and Blackjacks, but I guess those are already pretty good mechs that can tolerate some excessive nerfing, and probably my dual ERPPC Blackjacks were boating too many of one sort of weapon anyway.

ERPPC still hit's out at 950 meters in one second. That's about as long as it takes to say "One one-thousand." At closer ranges, people can actually dodge them, which is nice.

And I still contend that direwhales can dodge PPC's. They move 13 meters a second. The window of opportunity is low, and only gets lower the closer someone fires them- but how many meters do you have to move to dodge a PPC?

[Duke Nedo]

I think they are quite alright now after getting more used to it, though less effective... but that was the whole point, to nerf them a bit.

I think the cERLL nerf was bigger overkill, I would love them to go down into the 1.5-1.7s range, and for cLPLs to have shorter duration too...

[Reno Blade]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3649323

Reno Blade, on 18 August 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I recorded 6 matches (one on saturday and 5 today) with different Timber Wolf builds.
I'm only average and the mechs are not fully elited yet, but I still did around 500 - 850 damage with 2-3 kills.
That is still a lot for weapons everyone blaims to be useless.

http://www.youtube.c...F5IPuf-b2M5_4u5

Match1&2 are pug matches with 2ERLL, 2ERML in the arms and 2ERML, 2SRM6 in the torso
3 kills, 7 assist, 772 damage on Crimson Strait.
2 kills, 6 assists, 818 damage RC night.

Spoiler

Match 3 was another Pug match, this time with the old Gauss/2ERPPC meta. Gauss in the RA, one ERPPC in each Torso.
3 kills, 2 assists, 582 damage, but lost the game on River City

Spoiler

Match 4 I teamed up with my buddy Fused and we got paired with a 10man. I used Gauss, 2ERLL in the arms and 2ERML in the torso.
2 kills, 9 assists, 688 damage on Tourmaline Desert.

Spoiler

Match 5 I tried to use a UAC20 and 2MPulse in the arms with one ERML in each side torso.
2 kills, 7 assists, 524 damage on River City again.

Spoiler

Match 6 I still used the UAC20 build.
0 kills, 8 assists, 503 damage on Alpine Peaks.

Spoiler

Note: because there are a lot of threads about CERPPC, CERLL and the nerf, you might see this post posted in different threads.

[Lulz Kev]

Monkey Lover, on 18 August 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Russ said....

I'm really getting sick of all this "Russ said" and "Russ wants"

How about what your PAYING playerbase says and wants.

PS. For a president of a company his twitter default makes him look like hes trapped in his moms basement. How about something classy to represent ones company?

Edited by DTF Kev, 19 August 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

MauttyKoray, on 19 August 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

The problem being that it doesn't fill a role anymore and has been replaced by the LL. Not just as an option, but fully replaced. Its still usable, that's not the problem, but it is less effective at its job than the LL is. PPCs are meant to be a long range weapon (ER more so) and by halving the speed its been relegated to an inefficient Short-Mid weapon instead of the Mid-Long range it should be.

I'm not saying 200m/s is the right number to increase and make the PPC useful again, maybe its 100m/s. However, its too slow at its current speed and negates any advantage the weapon has against long range targets (ASSAULTS can dodge the thing...it lost its role).

No, the PPC can go back up about 300m/s...1100-1200ms would be good.

Lower Gauss from 2000 to like 1600 or so.

[FDJustin]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

No, the PPC can go back up about 300m/s...1100-1200ms would be good.

Lower Gauss from 2000 to like 1600 or so.

That would actually put them closer to being in-sync, which is what part of the nerf was supposed to stop anyway. But if that's what their desire was, they could have just lowered PPC speeds to 1200 and it would have worked fine.

For some reason, they want them to be mid-long range weapons, with some ability to dodge them. How they're set up now, speed wise, works for that.

Also, if gauss speed was nerfed, the charge would have to be removed.

[Ultimax]

MischiefSC, on 18 August 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

At 400-500 meters ppcs are awesome. They just no longer trump Gauss and ERLL as long range weapon of choice. ECM disruption,

Why shouldn't the heavier, higher heat, more critical slot ER PPCs - that were clearly designed for "extended range" not be the trump weapon over ER LLAS/cER LLAS?

It's pretty unreasonable to say that a 15 heat per volley weapon, that is an instant heat spike as opposed to slow heat build up over burn time - that weighs more, requires leading/isn't hit scan should be even be equal at the range it was intended for.

Well for the IS at least, the Clan ER LLAS was nerfed so hard as to not even be a competitor in this race anymore.