208 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

That would be my vote. Just make it a weapon on the weapon group that has to be on its own.

Hatchetman has some pretty good hardpoints.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 20 August 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Zyllos]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Hollander's kind of a one-trick pony, though, right? I don't think there's any variants, is there?

Well, with hardpoint sizes, the BZK-G1 would have a smaller ballistic hardpoint and added small energy hardpoints in the arms.

But a 3rd chassis would be impossible with the current restrictions that PGI has. That is why I think their current "must have 3 variants" due to their skill system (which is most likely going to change in the future anyways) needs to be removed.

[Dawnstealer]

Zyllos, on 20 August 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well, with hardpoint sizes, the BZK-G1 would have a smaller ballistic hardpoint and added small energy hardpoints in the arms.

But a 3rd chassis would be impossible with the current restrictions that PGI has. That is why I think their current "must have 3 variants" due to their skill system (which is most likely going to change in the future anyways) needs to be removed.

I think they're just doing mechs with 3 variants first. I think I've read elsewhere that their goal is to have all of the 3025/3026 mechs eventually (maybe it was 3050?). So, if PGI sticks it out, we'll see all of them one day. Or Soon™.

[Zyllos]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

I think they're just doing mechs with 3 variants first. I think I've read elsewhere that their goal is to have all of the 3025/3026 mechs eventually (maybe it was 3050?). So, if PGI sticks it out, we'll see all of them one day. Or Soon™.

One can hope (it would open up some mech designs).

It would also point that their skill system is to be changed in the future, if true.

[Sandslice]

Corbon Zackery, on 20 August 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Will assume that it will be a light mech. The list for light mech is thinning out a bit.

Possible candidates include:

Mercury
Thorn
Hornet
Mongoose
Hermes
Hussar
Javelin
Urban-mech (Fan Popular mech)
Hollander
Ostscout
Panther
Wolfhound (Experimental version unlikely do to the 3049 rollback.)

Short list:
Javelin (Light missile boat)
Hermes (speedy jack of all trades ECM capable 3049 version)
Panther (beefy light tank)
Hollander (long range suppression sniper)
Ostscout (Fast recon utility tool.)

All of these on the short list fill gaps in the light mech field.

My choice:
Javelin or Panther

Let's have a look.

Mercury: ComStar exclusive, and needs MASC.

Thorn: ComStar exclusive (some in Kurita A units.)

Hornet: x5 base engine on a 20-tonner could make it too slow to be useful. Also, potentially redundant of the Flea.

Mongoose: Possible. It'd be a 25-ton Locust.

Hermes: Marik exclusive in the timeline. Has an ECM variant (3S1.) Needs MASC (3S.)

Hussar: ComStar exclusive in the timeline; Coventry (Steiner) gets a production licence in 3055. Kurita A units have a nerfed version.

Javelin: Heavily associated with Davion (no current lights are, so good,) has either pure missile or pure energy variants. Has an ECM variant (-11B, a missile type.)

Urbie: I think we all know.

Hollander: Not enough variants*. Not yet in production (3054; the Hollander was built in reaction to the KFX-A Kit Fox, which uses a Gauss.)
*There are only two 35-ton Hollander variants; the rest are 45 tons.

Ostscout: Not enough variants in current tech; the -7K is illegal in MWO due to canonically having 0 firepower (only a TAG.)

Panther: x4 base engine. Essentially a light version of the Vindicator and Griffin - with similar problems distinguishing variants.

Wolfhound: Not enough variants, arguably; we'd only have the -2, the -1 and the -1A, since the -1B would be redundant of the 2 due to MWO not having rear weapons. The differences:

-2: ERLL, 3 ML
-1: LL, 3 ML
-1A: ERLL, 2 ML (extra heat sink).

Javelin seems most viable to me.

[Raigir]

I am oh so patiently awaiting my shadowcat. In the mean time though I think I'd lean toward trying out the crab if it was put in and it would be a reasonable starting point before pgi moves on to putting in the king crab. The marauder would be a joy to drive if it was in and I wouldn't have to think twice before immediately picking it up.

[CDLord HHGD]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Looks like it's probably related to tweaking the FOV? Anyways...next mech.

Not wanting to keep detracting here (sorry!) but my FOV hasn't worked in a year.... Feels like I got my face plastered against the window all the time....

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandslice, on 20 August 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Urbie: I think we all know.

Yeah, we all know this would be the ultimate "I WIN" button! Can't have that.

And for popular chassis without enough variants (Wolfhound) I still say PGI can create variants to make it work (Hero mechs anyone?). They'll just have to come up with two custom variants instead of one.....

[braveheart95]

Ph30nix, on 20 August 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

whats that crap on its knee? someone needs to remove that tumor

That is such a pretty tattoo......

[Alistair Winter]

MauttyKoray, on 20 August 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Potential candidates due to 'sources'.

First off, the Vindicator was already released

Spoiler

Crab/King Crab, both are possible!

Spoiler

The Whitworth seems very likely IMO as they seems to be really trying to increase the variety of mediums we can field.

Spoiler

I can't remember what this one is, but I believe its another medium.
(The Wyvern, as I've been told by a poster below.)

Spoiler

I highly doubt we're gonna see this one, but the change to bring it inline with MWO design is interesting.
The Mackie

Spoiler

I would personally love to see this little guy join the fight.
Hollander

Spoiler

A jumpjet heavy the Falconer. (could compete with TWolf maybe?)

Spoiler

Here's a dual pic of the thorn and something that needs no introduction.

Spoiler

So much beauty, it gave me a nosebleed.

[STEF_]

I said it once and I say it again.
ASSASSIN.
"Another medium?"
YES!

40 tons and 118 kph!!!
yes!

Edit: how cannot you love this one?
www.sarna.net/wiki/Assassin

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 20 August 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Sephlock]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

That would be my vote. Just make it a weapon on the weapon group that has to be on its own.

Hatchetman has some pretty good hardpoints.

Please. don't tease me.

We both know that that won't happen, and even if it does, the Goons will return (in a manner not unlike the return of the Clans) and Rodney King the hell out of Paul until melee gets removed.

[xengk]

Cyner, on 20 August 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

The Zeus should be the only answer here.

With the Zeus in we can finally reenact Mechwarrior 2 Mercs Intro.

[Koniving]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Hollander's kind of a one-trick pony, though, right? I don't think there's any variants, is there?

The F3 is the main Gauss Rifle... then..
BZK-G1 The G1 variant of the Hollander is built to address concerns about the Hollander's lack of back up weapons. The 'Mech is armed with an LB-X Autocannon/10 as its primary weapon, allowing it to fire both solid rounds as well as cluster rounds, which act like a 'Mech-scaled shotgun shell. The 'Mech is also armed with two Medium Lasers as backup weapons, and carries an additional two tons of armor. The G1 is an excellent 'Mech for vehicle hunting as well as anti-aircraft use with its LB-X Autocannon/10. BV (1.0) = 768[3], BV (2.0) = 873[5] BZK-F5 The F5 variant, called the Hollander II is a variant of the Hollander that looks to alleviate the 'Mech's problems by increasing the 'Mech's weight by ten tons, pushing it into the medium weight class. The 'Mech carries a Gauss Rifle as its primary weapon. This is backed up by a single Medium Laser and a Streak SRM-2 launcher. BV (1.0) = 1,084[3], BV (2.0) = 1,214[6]
BZK-F7
The F7 is a modification of the F5 that takes advantage of the Hollander II's larger weapons payload to mount the Lyran Alliance's new Heavy Gauss Rifle, which is capable of causing a great deal of damage at short to medium ranges. BV (1.0) = 1,087[3], BV (2.0) = 1,192[7]


It endured weight class changes as well as a number of other things over its service-life.
Then again supposedly the 35 ton Hollander, with its long legs fully extended, exceeded 13 meters of height which in Battletech is around the height of an Atlas.


Of course, an Atlas is roughly 13.6 to 14 meters. The Hollander supposedly reached 13.6 meters.

The Centurion in MWO is about 14 meters, the in MWO Atlas is about 17 meters.

The Vindicator in MWO is about 13.8 meters.



The Timber Wolf is roughly around 14 meters in MWO.

This chart however says the Timber Wolf should be 12.6 meters.

<.<; So, that's just an idea of how big the Hollander is (note that 90% of the time it will not have its legs extended, that's for firing over hills).

On a side note: That's how big a goddamn Gauss Rifle is supposed to be, not this microscopic thing that's smaller than a machine gun as it is on my damn Spider.... oh that pisses me off so much...

Anyway, given its size, reinforcing the skeleton to handle more weight and thus raising it to a medium class battlemech actually makes quite a bit of sense.

[stjobe]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 August 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

I said it once and I say it again.
ASSASSIN.
"Another medium?"
YES!

40 tons and 118 kph!!!
yes!

Edit: how cannot you love this one?
www.sarna.net/wiki/Assassin

"The Assassin is popular for its long-range capabilities thanks to a Holly-5 LRM launcher in the right side of its torso. Its primary short-range weapon is a Holly-2 SRM launcher in the torso's left side, supported by a Martell Medium Laser in the right arm."

This is what's wrong with MWO; a loadout like that can NEVER be viable in this game. A single LRM-5 is pathetic, and calling a SRM-2 a "primary short-range weapon" is laughable. Who even mounts SRM-2's?

Same with my favourite, the Panther. 35 ton, 64 kph light with a single PPC and a SRM-4? Terrifying in TT, laughably bad in MWO.

I hate what MWO has done to stock 'mechs and stock loadouts.

[Koniving]

stjobe, on 20 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I hate what MWO has done to stock 'mechs and stock loadouts.

It's all in how the weapons were implemented.

I did a write up on the Atlases and using a mixture of what I read and some hole-filling, came up with a tangible method that made Atlases as stock viable, but not only that but gave way for the 22 million cbill version to be the creme de la crop while the Atlas D and D-DC were about on par with one another with individual advantages, and when it came to the D / D-DC's AC/20 versus an Atlas RS's AC/10, I made it so that both were viable. AC/20 as damage over time, the AC/10 as burst damage.

Have a look, lemme know what you think?
And if the link doesn't work, it's in K-town under "Not having fun anymore." Second or third page.

For a quicky, the difference for an Atlas D and D-DC is that the D only has one pilot. The D-DC has a commander, so if the actual pilot (aka you the player) was knocked out or killed during combat, you'd switch to the commander and continue to pilot the mech (dreaded headshot, wait... he's picked up the controls!). An Atlas D of course can shoot backwards. Bam. Lore friendly solutions in a simulator-friendly comprehensive combat environment.

Been playing a bit of War Thunder lately...
It's had me kinda thinking about how different the game would have been if half the stuff that happens in TT would happen here.

Would you go 129 kph in a city if a Jenner going 97 slips, falls on its back and slides 90 meters right to the out of bounds? Just one of the many things..

Would you poptart if for every 3 meters you went up, you'd go 30 meters forward?

I know the MWO meta in Battletech is absolutely worthless. Heavily armored Twin AC/5 + PPC and twin PPC + AC/5 Shadowhawks are completely worthless against even stock Locusts, stock Jenners at 64 points of armor, the Shadowhawk with MWO meta is worthless! Even with a 0/0 pilot (top skill) against average 4/5 pilots. I was only able to kill one thing. One thing with 2 meta Shadowhawk try-hards in tabletop. A goddamn jeep. That was it. Meanwhile an Awesome handed them their ass.

Out of 22 targets and 36 try-hard Shadowhawk meta builds... I got one kill, and 36 dead Shadowhawks. And most fights were one on one or two on one in favor of the Shadowhawks against stock mechs.

But here.. pfft. It's all in how it's made. A huge part of it though is that rising threshold.

Edited by Koniving, 20 August 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

There's also a lot of side effects from getting your engine, gyros, or overheat. I wish they would have gone for more immersion. Take a gyro hit? Your mech wobbles around like it's drunk. Engine hit? You don't just explode, you might slow way down, or start overheating, or...etc. Running real hot? prepare for some double vision. And so on.

[dwwolf]

Dawnstealer, on 20 August 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Mercury and Hermes are out because they're both MASC mechs, right?

Panther would be a good bet - they seem to be releasing more faction-specific mechs.


Warhammer's out - Harmony Gold owns the rights. Same with the Archer, Longbow, Marauder, and Pheonix Hawk. A few others who are slipping my mind at the moment.

Factually not correct. But effectively the same since HG has more moolah to support lawyers.

[Deathlike]

Please, no Champion.

It was one of the few mechs in MW3 that was bad, and never really resurfaced again (not sure of the MW4-Mektek-Mekpaks though).

Also, it would be a disaster hitbox-wise in MWO... let alone the scaling. It would be a 60-ton Awesome. Nothing good would come of that.

[stjobe]

Koniving, on 20 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Have a look, lemme know what you think?

Yeah, I've argued canon engine restrictions a few times myself (as in, can only mount engines rated a multiple of your chassis weight; Atlases are stuck with 100, 200, 300, or 400-rated engines). It would help a LOT towards getting more varied loadouts on the field.

But I think what bothers me most is our weapons; due to our instant convergence making multiples of weapons into what is in effect huge mega-weapons, the armour system breaks. Which mean we got doubled IS and armour, which in turn means a single weapon (like those on that Assassin loadout, or those on the Panther) is anaemic, weak, and pathetic.

In TT, even a single PPC was a fearsome weapon; the Warhammer and Marauder mounted TWO of the things, and the Awesome had THREE! Sadly, we all know what MWO made of the Awesome, and we all remember quad- and hexa-PPC Stalkers, don't we?

The lore standard scout 'mechs were the Wasp and the Stinger; between them and the Locust they were something like 40% of all light 'mechs in the inner sphere IIRC; they were armed with a single Medium Laser and a SRM-2 (Wasp) or dual MGs (Stinger). And they killed stuff left and right - yes, even other 'mechs. Even 'mechs many times their size.

Imagine those loadouts in MWO. Hell, you needn't imagine; drop in a SDR-5V with a ML and a TAG and try to score a kill. My 5V has a 0.27 KDR... (5K has 1.0 and 5D 1.28 for comparison). It's just not viable.

Instant convergence made double armour a necessity (and even that is not enough, we had to get Ghost Heat as well, and PPC desyncs, and so on and so forth), and THAT made all our stock loadouts rubbish.

Then there's the whole SHS/DHS/broken heat system malarkey, but now I'm depressed enough for one night...

Edit: Jeez, Lordred's post really sums it up, doesn't it?

Edited by stjobe, 20 August 2014 - 01:55 PM.